Career in the FAA or ATC?

[Rally]

Hello,

Just about to make the step into the regionals. Believe it or not after seeing the pay, life style, all you guys taking about divorce etc I am contemplating a new career. I want to stick around aviation but want something stable. I almost have a four year degree (I have a two year), have about 2100 TT 240 ME ATP CFI-I MEI (blah blah, not that the flight time matters for ATC). Just wondering what it would take to get into ATC? Is it difficult? Whats the normal cost of a program? One thing I am worried about is that the FAA is not hiring currently. I would hate to go into it just to have it not hire me in. On the other hand I think the FAA will wait as long as they can and then start going crazy? Opinions?

Now for the second part.

How about a career in the FAA? Maybe a general ops inspector? Anybody here do that? How hard is it to get in? Do you have to have time in a/c over 12,500 pounds? I meet all of the other requirements.

Thanks

 

[Rogue5]

Flying a desk

Many of your questions regarding the Aviation Safety Inspector job can be answered by reading the vacancy announcement at www.faa.gov:

http://jobs.faa.gov/announcement_detail.asp?vac_id=27152
or
http://jobs.faa.gov/announcement_detail.asp?vac_id=73668

Looks like those guys make some pretty good coin...

Also, see below for the announce on the ATC job:

http://jobs.faa.gov/announcement_detail.asp?vac_id=52569

 

[Ravengirl]

I know there are at least a few controllers that frequent the board, hopefully one of them will take a look at this thread Also, do some reading at these two sites: http://www.stuckmic.com and http://www.atccti.com.

I've been out of school 8 months awaiting hire by the FAA- please feel free to PM me if you have any questions for me!

Stephanie

 

[ATCER]

First I'll ask my standard question... how old are ya ??? Age 31 is the cutoff for ATC. If you fall under that can you wait out a hiring freeze ??? We are in one right now... (more on that in a second) Read the following links ~>

http://www.natca.org/about/howatc.msp

http://www.faa.gov/careers/employment/atc.htm

Your route would probably be CTI ... are you near any of the schools listed on the site ???

You bring up a good point... working for the FAA is pretty good, you have job security, benefits, retirement, and for a civil service job you make some good $$$ as opposed to many other civil service jobs out there (cop, etc.). Every now and then on the evening shift we work the FAA system guys (flight check) who test the ILS's, VOR's, etc. I think they are always in King Air's, here in NY I think they are based out of ACY but don't hold me to that. Seems like a nice gig, I chatted with them one night while I had them in a hold

Hiring Freeze... they have not hired a single body in close to 2 years... why I have no idea... The administrator says we are "overstaffed" ... yea, maybe at some small lower level places but many of your big facilities in NY, Chicago, Atlanta, Oakalnd, etc, are not. Here in NY the tracon (N90) and the center (ZNY) are short, we're all working 6 day weeks. At ZNY it looks like the new Billion $$$+ oceanic system ATOP (Advanced Technologies and Oceanic Procedures) is going to be delayed because neither of the 2 oceanic areas can spare bodies to go train on the system. Not to mention that during ATOP training they also wanted to take bodies off the floor for RVSM training ??? There were all sorts of rumors about us getting people, transfers, new hires... we were told the other day not to expect help any time soon...

If you can wait them out about 2 years I think you'll see things pick up... they have to... we are losing people every year, we lost 3 this year already.

Anyway, enough ranting... read the info on the links and if you have any questions post them up. Sometimes I don't get on here for a few days but I do make it a point to scan the board once or twice a week so I'll get to any questions you have.

Good Luck

 

[ATCER]

Article

Here is some hope... it has not been passed BUT ... some money was proposed for hiring.

Aviation Daily: House Approves $14 Billion For FAA Operations

Monday, July 26, 2004



House appropriators last week reported out an $89.9 billion Fiscal Year 2005 transportation treasury funding bill that includes $14 billion for FAA -- $7.2 billion for FAA operations, of which $6 billion would come from the Airport and Airway Trust Fund and $1.7 from the general fund.

The bill increases operations funding by $238 million.

FAA spending covers air traffic control organization, aviation regulation and certification, research and acquisition, commercial space transportation, human resources and other operational activities. It gives $86 million to the contract tower program but does not reflect an estimate on new contracts for FY 2005. It assumes an air traffic control staffing level of 15,333 by yearend, just short of FAA's estimate of 15,350. It includes $9 million above the Administration request to hire and train new controllers.

The report recommends $916.9 million for aviation regulation and certification, $224 million for research and acquisition and $69.8 million for human resources, $8.8 million below the budget estimate. It also includes $3.5 billion for the Airport Improvement Program and $102 million for Essential Air Service. -DM

 

[Snakum]

How about a career in the FAA? Maybe a general ops inspector?

Yeah ... then you, too, could be a worthless, self-important, incompetent, slug feeding off the government teat while making life miserable for thousands of pilots and managers who endeavor to do nothing more than follow the rules which change daily, depending on which inspector/FSDO-geek/Administrator/Aeromedical-rep you happen to be talking to at any given moment.

I vote for ATC, instead. Then you'd be among some of the most dedicated, professional, and above all ... knowledgeable folks in the aviation field. I wouldn't piss on an FAA Inspector if he was on fire. I actually had an FAA representative tell me emphatically that the form 8500 required a pilot to list every traffic violation one had ever received. The fact that I was reading section 18 from an 8500 form that I was holding in my hand did nothing to convince him otherwise. Neither did it help when I directed him to the URL where could be found DETAILED guidance for AMEs on exactly what information the 8500 required. Is that a killer ... or what?!

Minh

FAA - "I'm from the FAA, and I'm here to help."
Minh - "Here's how you can help ... go f@ck yourself ... alright?"

 

[wildbill]

Sorry to tell you, but the FAA has changed their motto.

FAA: We're not happy, until your unhappy...

 

[jobear]

Faa= Bohicia

 

[ATCER]

Yeah ... then you, too, could be a worthless, self-important, incompetent, slug feeding off the government teat while making life miserable for thousands of pilots and managers who endeavor to do nothing more than follow the rules which change daily, depending on which inspector/FSDO-geek/Administrator/Aeromedical-rep you happen to be talking to at any given moment.


FAA - "I'm from the FAA, and I'm here to help."
Minh - "Here's how you can help ... go f@ck yourself ... alright?"

Breath man... BREATH ! LOL

When things get stressful for me (more then one plane in my sector, guys asking for shortcuts, something about an engine problem) I take a deep breath and say to myself...

Serenity Now !​

​

I wise man named Frank Costanza taught me it...​

​

​

Now that we're calm... can you tell us how you really feel ???​

​

​

J/K ... if it makes ya feel any better they give us a hard time also (FSDO, AME's, etc.)​

​

​

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

We are on a hiring freeze which I am sure you are aware of. With that the case don't expect to get hired anytime soon due to the fact that there are tons of people in the hiring pool just sitting around.

As for CTI/Off the street hiring. They were hiring off the street last year but Im not completly sure whether or not they are going to keep that up. Ive heard talk of the FAA downsizing the CTI programs to just a few major schools and basically just ridding themselves of the MMAC at OKC. I don't know what is going to happen but Its not the best time to try and start a career. Don't get me wrong. They are gonna have to hire a ton of controllers in the next 10 years but no one knows what is happening.

Ive heard hiring will resume early next year, and heard not until 2006. If your patient and meet the requirments then go for it. Good pay/benefits and your home every night. Unless you work the midnight shifts but you know what I mean. If you want a quick start I don't know what the story is with the MARC's college in MSP. Look into that. Its a quick in if you can pass the course.

MK

 

[Snakum]

(breathing ....) (breathing ....) "Serenity noooooooowwww!" "Serenity nooooww!"

Hey ... that really works. Thanks.

I still will never, EVER, even if I live to be one hundred, understand exactly what the h@ll the FAA thinks it's going to accomplish when it's own petty bureucrats don't even have a thorough understanding of the rules. It's insane. I asked one simple question once of a rep at the GSO FSDO. When I called back the following week for a clarification question I got AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ANSWER from someone in the SAME office. I mentioned it in conversation to the owner of a mid-sized Part 135 operation where I was flying at the time, and he proceeded to recount horror story after horror story of misinformed, contradictory inspectors making his life miserable for thrity-some years. And then there are the inspectors who are on such a power trip they honestly appear to delight in making uncomfortable the men and women who are trying to feed families doing a job they love, and a job they strive to be the best at every single day, whether they be pilots or controllers. It's a d@mn shame.

To co-opt another Sienfeld line ... "Who are these people?"

Minh

 

[sky37d]

Also, I read recently that at OSH, the administrator said they are looking at dumping FSS. Could be the reason that there is no hiring at ATC is they are also still looking at privitizing that as well. Seems like Raytheon is the company to work for. They seem to have an inside track on FSS.


Seems like more than a little insider / good ol' boy stuff going on.

 

[JAFI]

Rally, ATC does pay better and you get to retire younger. Not with standing Shakum's rant, if you wish some info on the Ops Inspector route send me a PM.


Shakum, I recommend you get some help with anger management before you burst something important. Life is too short to be that pissed off.

 

[Snakum]

Well ... I'm sure there are, indeed, FAA Ops people who are decent, regular people just trying to do a job. You may be one of them. However, when every single pilot and manager I have ever met has nothing but scarey stories about FAA inspectors (and a number of funny stories about FAA incompetence ) what is one to believe? Seriously? Is everyone making it up? Having experienced some of it first-hand recently, I'd say 'No'.

So ... no offense intended to you personally, but we're not making this stuff up.

Shakum
(My new Jewish name )

 

[satpak77]

The Kerry Factor

If Kerry gets elected we might see the privatize-ATC push slow down or stop. He is anti-privatization, documented in NATCA and ALPA articles

http://www.natca.org/legislationcenter/JohnKerry.msp


http://www.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=11034

 

[Goose Egg]

Now hold on for a minute. There are careers other than flying?

 

[Goose Egg]

No, seriously...

"Just about to make the step into the regionals. Believe it or not after seeing the pay, life style..."

That's funny, those are selling points for me. What better lifestyle is there than flying all the time and getting paid for it? The rest I can deal with.

"...all you guys taking about divorce etc..."

Newsflash #1: Flying does not cause divorce. It may be something that aggravates an already bad situation, but I know enough happily married pilots to know that work does not determine marital happiness. There are plenty of people in so-called "stable" professions that are getting divorced. What does that tell you? Face it, if you and your partner are not equipped to deal with changing life situations and hardships, then you really have no business being married in the first place.​

"I am contemplating a new career. I want to stick around aviation but want something stable.

Newsflash #2: A "stable" job is a thing of the past. It doesn't exist anymore. Get used to it.

How about a career in the FAA? Maybe a general ops inspector? Anybody here do that? How hard is it to get in? Do you have to have time in a/c over 12,500 pounds? I meet all of the other requirements.

General ops inspector?! Are you freakin' kidding me? You'd rather do that then fly airplanes?

 

[mattpilot]

If Kerry gets elected we might see the privatize-ATC push slow down or stop. He is anti-privatization, documented in NATCA and ALPA articles

Help me out .... Is he against privatization after he was for privatization, or is he still expected to take the side for privatization?

 

[ATCER]

Help me out .... Is he against privatization after he was for privatization, or is he still expected to take the side for privatization?

KERRY VOWS TO KEEP SKIES SAFE, WINS STAUNCH BACKING OF AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS
​

Kerry Pledges No Privatization of Air Traffic Control


​

WASHINGTON - In keeping with its mission to protect aviation safety above all else, the National Air Traffic Controllers Association today gave its full support to Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign, declaring Senator Kerry as the candidate who will ensure that the safety of the flying public never takes a back seat to political ideology or special interests.

"The Bush Administration has tried to jeopardize the safety of our skies by pushing its own political agenda to contract out safety to the lowest bidder," NATCA President John Carr declared. "Fortunately, brave Republicans and Democrats have fought to keep safety first, but the clock is ticking. Four more years of a Bush Administration means four more years of putting a misguided political ideology over air safety. That's four more years our nation can't afford."

"Air traffic controllers are both Republicans and Democrats, but when it comes to aviation safety, we support any elected official who is truly committed to making sure the flying public comes first. We represent more than 15,000 dedicated FAA employees who work each and every day to guide America home safely. As public servants, we would be proud to have Senator Kerry as our commander-in-chief and we will do all we can to support his campaign."

In a letter to NATCA President John Carr, Senator Kerry stated, "I have been disappointed with the Bush Administration's systematic plans to diminish our air traffic control system. They have sought to privatize air traffic control services. They are currently seeking to slash the budget for modernization of air traffic control technologies. And they have taken a position of malign neglect toward the looming retirement crisis that will devastate staffing of air traffic control facilities throughout the country in the next few years."

Senator Kerry also pledged that "we will restore the partnership between the Federal Aviation Administration and the air traffic controllers that is essential to true progress in the important task of keeping our skies safe." Senator Kerry asserted that the Bush Administration has "squandered the good will that existed between the FAA and air traffic controllers in the previous administration, a period of unprecedented progress in the modernization of air traffic control."

 

[ATCER]

John Kerry Opposes Privatization of the Air Traffic Control System

Kerry testified against privatization before Commerce Committee:

In a hearing on reauthorization of the FAA, Kerry told the Commerce Committee:

"I am concerned over the impact the administration's plan to privatize part or all of the air traffic control system may have on air traffic in the United States, and I hope it will be debated as we proceed with drafting legislation. Last fall the President changed the designation of air traffic services from "inherently government" to "commercially competitive," thus allowing for the possible takeover of the air traffic control system by private contractors. I cannot think of a worse idea than handing over responsibility for the nation's air traffic control system to a private company, and I am surprised that even this administration would entertain such a notion. After September 11 we felt it necessary to make baggage and passenger screening a federal responsibility because private screening was obviously inadequate and most people agreed that in this age of heightened alert only professionally trained federal workers could provide our best protection against terrorism. I ask my colleagues: if we don't trust private screeners to inspect baggage why would we trust a private entity to run our nation's air traffic control system? The United States government has developed and maintained the largest, safest, and most complex air traffic system in the world. Other nations have attempted privatization with questionable results. This work should only be performed by well trained and experienced federal workers. These men and women perform a valuable service to their country and their jobs should not be contracted out to the lowest bidder. Privatizing the air traffic control system is a bad idea and I sincerely hope the administration takes a closer look at the harm this could cause our nation." [Statement to the Committee on Commerce, Senator John F. Kerry, February 11, 2003]

Kerry Voted to Ban Privatization of Air Traffic Control

On June 12, 2003, John Kerry voted to prohibit the Transportation secretary from privatizing core air traffic control functions, system specialists and maintenance of systems and flight service stations. [S824, 6/12/2003, Senate Vote #222] The amendment passed 56-41

 

[ATCER]

Also, I read recently that at OSH, the administrator said they are looking at dumping FSS. Could be the reason that there is no hiring at ATC is they are also still looking at privitizing that as well. Seems like Raytheon is the company to work for. They seem to have an inside track on FSS.


Seems like more than a little insider / good ol' boy stuff going on.

There is truth to the rumor about dumping FSS and flowing those folks back into the system...

[font=ARIAL,HELVETICA]Congress makes sure FSS service levels continue[/font]

AOPA advocacy has led to a congressional directive to the FAA, ensuring pilots continue to get the best possible flight briefing and en route information services without user fees. Congress is telling the FAA to develop comprehensive customer service standards for pilot briefings.

"This guidance from Congress is a very pointed reminder to the agency that pilots should get a high level of service no matter who ultimately provides the briefing," said Phil Boyer, AOPA president. "Just like commercial inbound call centers, flight service stations must have metrics for on-hold times, abandon rates, and time to answer calls from pilots. Flight service station functions are safety-of-flight issues, and pilot service can't be shortchanged."

The issue is important because the FAA is currently studying whether it should contract out some FSS functions, much as it does already with the DUAT service. (See AOPA President Phil Boyer's editorial, "Modernizing flight service.")

AOPA's legislative affairs staff worked with the House Appropriations Committee to add the FSS service directive to the report accompanying next year's funding bill for the FAA. The bill has been approved by the committee and now must be approved by the full House and Senate.

The report says, "In order to maintain a high level of safety and efficiency in the provision of flight service activities, the Committee urges FAA to ensure that the flight service station competitive sourcing effort require bidders to provide comprehensive and specific customer service standards for providing flight briefings to pilots as well as a process for ongoing customer service monitoring and evaluation."

"That's really more than a suggestion," explained Andy Cebula, AOPA senior vice president of Government and Technical Affairs. "When the people who write the checks tell a government agency to do something, the bureaucrats usually pay attention."

The FAA is currently conducting an "A-76 study" to see what FSS functions might be performed by commercial services.

This week was the deadline for bids to outsource the FSS system. The bidders include aerospace companies such as Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and Raytheon. While some think this process always leads to contracting out the government service, that's not true.

The FAA itself, in partnership with FSS equipment manufacturer Harris Corporation, is also in the bidding. It's making its own business case that the FAA is the most efficient organization (MEO) to run flight services. In most other A-76 studies, the government agency, or MEO, continues to provide the service. But no previous A-76 process has been for something as big as the flight service system, which costs some $550 million a year to run.

AOPA has been part of the A-76 process from the beginning to make sure pilots have a voice in the outcome. For example, the association's technical staff had significant input in describing the services pilots need from FSS. (See "AOPA to protect pilots' interests in FSS study.")

And AOPA will have a voice in the performance standards that the future FSS will have to meet whether the service is provided by government employees or contractors.

"Rest assured, as both a heavy user of FSS for more than three decades, and as I lead your association in addressing this change, pilot needs and a government-funded service, without user fees, will be of utmost importance," said Boyer.

 

[vetteracer]

How about a career in the FAA?


Don't go to the dark side! Stay and fight it out on the good side young skywalker!