Career dilemma- need opinions

[I'm42]

What is your wife's opinion? As you should already know, pilots have a high divorce rate, and staying in aviation full-time could mean that you wouldn't have to worry about not having holidays off, since you might not have anyone to spend them with....

42

 

[Draginass]

If you want a career where you'll be respected and will respect yourself, do not be a commerical pilot.

If you want a job that will likely have nothing more than a 401k retirement, a flat or decreasing pay scale, periods of unemployment, bad labor relations, little to no repect, and young pilots willing to fly for practically nothing to get your job, then be a commerical pilot. The airline pilot job that you probably have in your mind is very rapidly going away . . . . . . permanently. It's about the same as driving city bus . . . . Oh, but actually driving a city bus in NY probably makes you more money and a lot better benefits than commanding an RJ based in NY.

 

[bjsanders]

Thanks again for the replies. I do have a wife, and I intend to keep her! I also have a degree already in poli sci. Bobbysamd made the commented that I sounded like I was trying to talk myself out of an aviation career. This is probibly true, but I'm only because I am so torn over what to do. I just got back from a great lesson; I had so much fun, I'm still grinning ear-to-ear. I could go to law school, but then I would have to be a lawyer. I don't want to work long grueling hours in an office for the rest of my days.

 

[wil]

My buddy is a Dentist who had his school paid for by an Indian tribe in OK in exchange for 5 years of commitment. He paid dearly of course, those folks made the English smile look good, ha, ha. He is now in private practice working 60+ hours and paying out the ying-yang in malpractice insurance. And, he is not making a killing. Everything is not as it appears. Never base a career decision on reported earnings, et cetera.
Take a day to yourself and go find a nice place to reflect. Take a yellow pad and write down your life goals, career, family, expectations. You might see a pattern. When I tried this I quickly realized that an office job was a killer. I needed to be out and in motion, traveling. If I was not flying I would probably drive a truck out on the highway (with the wife and our dog). The point of the exercise is to let a stream of thoughts flow on to paper with little distraction and then by looking back at your writing discern a pattern.
And, yes flying can feel like a job when scheduling is calling but most days it is a blast!! All the best, cheers, Wil

 

[Publishers]

plan

"Your heart is revealed and your character forged when life does not turn out the way you planned."

It is in the act of facing the storm that you discover what lies inside you and you decide what lies before you."

John Ortburg

 

[bobbysamd]

Law school

if money is your main motivator then maybe you should consider law school.

I could go to law school, but then I would have to be a lawyer. I don't want to work long grueling hours in an office for the rest of my days.

Naaaah, you don't want to go to law school - unless - you consider aviation law.

Aviation law can take a number of forms. Of course, we tend to think of it as practitioners who can call off the FAA dogs and protect our certificates. I would have liked to work for such an attorney, but there just aren't many of them and most are sole practitioners who don't need much help. But aviation law can also include certain plaintiffs' and insurance defense practices. (I regard the latter as the dark side of the street.) If you choose it, you would have plenty of opportunities to work in aviation matters, though it would turn primarily on tort and litigation. I interned with an insurance defense attorney who was a pilot. He eventually bought a King Air and drove it everywhere.

Make no mistake about it, lawyers and their staff work hard hours under a great deal of stress. Law earns me money and feeds and clothes me and mine, but flying is still far more fun. Of course, building and maintaining a flying career is challenging becauses of the forces you face, and most flying jobs don't pay well. Not to mention the instability.

Once more, there are plenty of poisons from which to pick. Pick yours wisely.

 

[$$$4nothin]

How to be home every day

Become a freight dog. You will be home every day,you will get 4 day weekends, you will make more initially, you can upgrade to a lear withing a year. Yes you will top out at $75,000 instead of $115,000 if you stay with a company like Airnet instead of staying with a regional. QOL is much better if you ask me. Majors do hire freight dogs as well. In the last month we had 2 lear captains go to SWA. Not every freight dog flies at night either, most but not all. Oh ya you can also fly more aggressively, and boxes wont complain. Just something to think about. Great Cornholio dont lie you fly ch20's for fun.

 

[Fog Sucks]

Go to Pharmacy School

Hey, just my opinion for what it's worth. Look into pharmacy school. Pharmacists make bank where I live. Good money in that gig. No funky mouths to deal with either.

To me, (just my opinion, don't kill me for saying this) commercial aviation is now officially overrated. The events of 9/11 have changed this industry drastically. It's not the great job it used to be in my opinion. I'm just a dispatcher but I had intentions of moving onto a major airline after a few years of experience with the regional hole I'm at now. That doesn't happen anymore. I wouldn't dare take a job at a major these days. Getting furloughed isn't my goal at this point. Airline business is too volatile now.

Sleep at home every night with your wife and be a pharmacist or a doctor or a dentist. Fly on the weekends.

Good luck.

 

[bjsanders]

Dentistry appeals to me more than pharmacy because I could own my own business as a dentist. As far as being an aviation lawyer and working for an insurance company, I think it is something to look into. But I am hesitant to go into law. My wife's father is an estate & trusts lawyer. He is a great person, makes great money, and I think he really enjoys his life, but from first hand experience I know he works loooong hours. He often gets home at 8:30, and sometimes much later. Even though he makes A LOT of money, after realizing how much he works, I lost my desire to be a lawyer.

 

[bjsanders]

Also, I realize that i set the tone for a negtive thread about being in an aviation career. I apologize for this. I would like to hear from people that have made it in aviation and can elaborate on their sucess in the industry and how they think a wannabe can find sucess in his/her future.

 

[bobbysamd]

The road to success

As far as being an aviation lawyer and working for an insurance company, I think it is something to look into.

As a plaintiffs' and claimants' paralegal, I see most insurance defense attorneys as individuals with horns on their heads whose sole purpose is to deny fair treatment by insurance companies. I realize their clients are not real people but are faceless institutional clients. Take it from someone who knows, insurance companies can be truly rotten to people. If you really want to do something for people, come on to our side of the street, or . . . .

My wife's father is an estate & trusts lawyer. . . .

Estates. trusts, conservatorships, guardianships and probate were my first practice area. I really liked probate and estate planning. Some parts of it, such as will contests, are fascinating - but maybe that's me.

He is a great person, makes great money, and I think he really enjoys his life, but from first hand experience I know he works loooong hours. He often gets home at 8:30, and sometimes much later. Even though he makes A LOT of money, after realizing how much he works, I lost my desire to be a lawyer.

What time does he go in to work? Maybe he needs to hire an associate(s) and/or a paralegal(s). Good paralegals can draw up wills, trusts and powers of attorney, prepare estate tax returns, and do plenty of other work.

I would like to hear from people that have made it in aviation and can elaborate on their sucess in the industry and how they think a wannabe can find sucess in his/her future.

Success can be found in aviation on many levels. But, as with other vocations, it takes luck, persistence, good timing, and hard work and long hours to achieve it. Don't let your flight school salespeople con you into believing otherwise.

No matter what vocation your choose, expect to work long and hard hours and to make sacrifices. There is no easy road to success. As the expression goes, "All things cometh to he who waiteth - while he worketh like hell while he waiteth."

 

[$$$4nothin]

Nice office

You will not find an office you like more than a cockpit no matter how much $ you make. Every time you see an airplane fly over you will regret it.

 

[Draginass]

When you get called out for your second transatlantic trip in a row with minimum crew rest, just had your pay cut by 25%, know that they're coming after your pension next, and are facing a furlough, you'll rather sit in the airport bathroom than in that cockpit. Like's been said before . . . Aviation is a great hobby and lousy job.

 

[potrack]

I know plenty of Dentists that are Pilots for fun.

Don't know any Pilots that are Dentists for fun.

My neighbor is a dentist (32 years old), opening his own practice,
doesn't have to worry about losing his medical, furloughs,
company going under, being on the road, etc.

He does work 5 days a week and he loves it.
People paying lots of money for cosmetic dentistry.

Terrorism or "low-cost, start-up" dentists don't
have an impact on his business.

food for thought

 

[Huck]

I would like to hear from people that have made it in aviation and can elaborate on their sucess in the industry and how they think a wannabe can find sucess in his/her future.

Spent the late eighties as an aeronautical engineer in my own little cubicle- hating it.
Spent the early nineties as a law student and clerk. REALLY hated it.
Started flying corporate, 3 years free-lance, making about $2000/ a month.
Flew commuters for 4 years.
Flew ACMI internationally for 3 years.
Got on with FDX. Been here 2 years, on the panel of the 727, going to the panel of the DC-10 in August. Finally paid off the credit card and family debt I've been dragging around since the first Bush administration.

This career ain't for the squeamish. You gotta have a spouse that makes serious money (at least for a while) and is very understanding.

But now I work essentially week on, week off. My wife stays home with the kids. I miss a few holidays and birthdays, but not all of them - and Santa can come see your kids on the 22nd of December if he has to. What's important is I get 13-15 days a month at home. Not before 8 am and after 7 pm, but all day.

Come on, man - dentists don't get to see the sun set behind Kilamanjaro, or fly up the spine of the Andes on a crystal-clear day, or know the best bars in the top ten cities in the globe. Go sit beside a dentist for one full day. You'll be back at the airport the next morning. You want to stare down the gullets of an average slice of the american population? They ain't all supermodels! (that would be cool, though....)

And as for respect - you get it when you demand it. I used to fly a 182 hauling jumpers when I was just getting started, but I acted and operated like I was a 747 captain. First operator didn't like it, so I found a better one. Respect yourself and your profession, and demand it from others, or pull the handles.

 

[de727ups]

"I would like to hear from people that have made it in aviation and can elaborate on their sucess in the industry and how they think a wannabe can find sucess in his/ her future."

Start young, work hard, only get married if she's able to pull her own weight and is the independent sort. Get a four year degree for the best jobs. Don't be tied down to a certain part of the country and don't limit yourself too much by only being willing to work for a few companies....use the shotgun approach. Don't expect shortcuts to work. Pray a lot, think good thoughts, and hope for a lot of luck because, in the end, it's a huge factor. Not sure "luck" is the right word because we can make our own luck through our actions. I'm just saying there is a lot of stuff that we can't control involved in our career progressions.

 

[bobbysamd]

Career building

Start young, work hard, only get married if she's able to pull her own weight and is the independent sort. Get a four year degree for the best jobs. Don't be tied down to a certain part of the country and don't limit yourself too much by only being willing to work for a few companies....use the shotgun approach. Don't expect shortcuts to work. Pray a lot, think good thoughts, and hope for a lot of luck because, in the end, it's a huge factor. Not sure "luck" is the right word because we can make our own luck through our actions. I'm just saying there is a lot of stuff that we can't control involved in our career progressions.

I would emphasisze "start young." Take it from someone who knows.

I would also add: Follow traditional paths of career building, i.e., build your experience through legitimate employment. Do not attempt end-runs around the system; you will regret it in the end. Do not succumb to sales pitches that promise rapid advancement to airline cockpits. These schemes are conjobs and/or will earn your peers' disdain.

Good luck with whichever choice you make, drilling holes in teeth or boring holes in the sky.