Career dilemma- need opinions

[bjsanders]

Hello, I have been lurking on this forum for quite a while. I enjoy reading all the informative posts about the aviation industry. First off, I want to say that I truly enjoy flying. Here's my dilemma. I thought I would enjoy flying for a living but now I'm not sure. I despise my flight school, the training is fine, but the thought of working there is a real downer. If there were a bright light at the end of the tunnel I could tolerate it. But is there a bright light? According to many of the users here, flying for a living is not all that great. Or more specifically, the thrill of flying wears off once it is a job. This job also appears to be very unstable for a long-term career. I can't predict which airline will fold in 30 years. Also, the prospect of making at least 150K is becoming more elusive. All of you know the downsides...

I'm thinking of going back to school to become a dentist (possibly a doctor). This will be a 6-year commitment because I would have to complete the pre-req.'s. I'm 23, married, already 40k in the hole, but if I go back to state schools I could graduate from dental school with a (I think?) manageable debt of 130K total.

As enigma put it...

That way I could:
sleep in my own bed,
see my girls volleyball games,
see my sons symphony concerts,
take my wife out on my anniversary/valentines/her birthday,
see my kids birthday partys in person instead of on video tape,
drink with who I want instead of the FA's on my line,
and last but not least, SPEND CHRISTMAS AT HOME, not in a second rate hotel in ACY/CLE/CVN/ALS/IGM, etc, etc, etc.

The average earnings for dentists who own their own practice are 186k according to the ada. This is for working an average of 37 hours per week. So eventually I will probably be well off financially, especially considering you can work past age 60. In the meantime I could fly and instruct just for fun. It is a plan but I have not made my decision. Can anyone convince me that staying in this industry is worth it, that the light at the end is still bright? I'm still young enough to change my career and I want to make the best decision for my wife, myself and our future.

 

[nosehair]

Flying Career

Go pull teeth, man. The only way a person can be happy in this flying game is if you have a passion for it. There is only a slim chance that you will make any money. IT is like the movie/entertainment industry. For every high-dollar star there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of "wannabe" actors gettin' by with bit parts - but they are basicly happy. They are living their passion. Like we are.

 

[TrafficInSight]

Go pull teeth, man. The only way a person can be happy in this flying game is if you have a passion for it. There is only a slim chance that you will make any money. IT is like the movie/entertainment industry. For every high-dollar star there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of "wannabe" actors gettin' by with bit parts - but they are basicly happy. They are living their passion. Like we are.

And going somewhere else to work doesn't necessarily mean you can't fly... doesn't even mean you can't fly for MONEY.

I would say though that if it's just your flight school ruining the whole deal why not find a new one?

 

[MarineGrunt]

Don't let all the negativity around here get you down. Pilots are known to complain a lot anyway!

If you're only 23 years old, why not try flying for the military? Good money, GREAT bennies... put in your 20yrs, retire, go apply for a decent flying job...

 

[Snakum]

Go to dental school. I've been working towards flying commercially since 1995, and have been stubbing my toe left, right, and center. I've decided it would be the most fun and do'able to have a semi-stable job (the one I have now) and merely instruct and/or fly a little charter part-time. I think the stress of keeping a 1st Class medical at 40yo and having to fight students or pull gear on a King Air to put food on the table is probably more than my nerves can take at my age.

Better to work a regular job for better pay, and get my 'skynut' on weekends.


Minh

All that said, however, if I lost my current job, it'd be nice to have a Comm/CFI to fall back on and at least be able to take one stab at an aviation career. When you finish dental school, you'll need an experienced pro to fly your family around in your Cessna 421, until you meet insurance mins. Let's keep in touch.

 

[great cornholio]

I think most people on this board would say that in order to have make a living at flying you really really need to have a passion for it. And not just the normal passion. You gotta not get too hung up on not sleeping in the same bed as your wife everynight, not seeing your kids concerts, games, births, birthdays, first steps/words etc. or being able to spend any holiday at home. The 121 lifestyle will wear you down and there will be points where you want to quit and then there will be points were you will actually be happy with the lifestyle and not imagine life any other way. You really gotta do what will be best for you. If you can be happy being a dentist then by all means go do that. You can easily instruct on the side at nights and on weekends. There are many instructors at my old FBO that do this. They all have day jobs. Some work other office jobs, and even one plays in the National Symphony Orchestra. They all just use the CFI as a way to get paid to do their hobby. And it is true when you fly for work it does kind of loose some of the magic. Thats why I go fly a 172 or something for fun a few times a year. If you have any doubts about living out of a suitcase for the next 37 years then I say go be a dentist and be a CFI on the nights and weekends. Don't get me wrong I love the 121 lifestyle and couldn't imagine having a non flying job, but it is a rough life sometimes.
Hope this helps
Great Cornholio

 

[Publishers]

Every day

Any job for any amount done every day is not worth it unless you love to do it and look forward to going to do it every day.

If flying or denistry do not float your boat that way, find something else that does.

 

[daddysquared]

The 121 lifestyle is horrible. Go pull teeth and buy a nice little bird to fly around on the weekends.

 

[bobbysamd]

The grass is always greener . . . .

I thought I would enjoy flying for a living but now I'm not sure. I despise my flight school, the training is fine, but the thought of working there is a real downer. If there were a bright light at the end of the tunnel I could tolerate it. But is there a bright light? According to many of the users here, flying for a living is not all that great. Or more specifically, the thrill of flying wears off once it is a job. This job also appears to be very unstable for a long-term career. I can't predict which airline will fold in 30 years. Also, the prospect of making at least 150K is becoming more elusive.

My story is familiar to most people here, so I beg their indulgence while I provide it to you.

I was 31 when I started flying in 1982. I had wanted to fly all my life, and I found after I started that I really enjoyed flying and was passionate about few other things. For that reason, I continued to work on ratings, despite major scheduling obstacles which caused my training to drag out for years. I earned my CFI to put flying on a paying basis.

In 1987, I had grown disenchanted with my work, which some would have found to be interesting, unless they knew all the drudgery and BS that went into it. I had two friends whom the commuters hired, so I saw no reason why I could not be hired. Brisk hiring during that time and prospects of future brisk hiring spurred on my decision.

My goal was never to make tons of money, but just to fly for a commuter. I only cared about making enough money to eat and pay my bills. Unfortunately, my plans did not work out. But, all along, I chose to change careers to professional aviation because I wanted to do something I liked doing and felt strongly about, and be paid for it.

Somehow, reading between the lines, I gather that you would rather be a dentist and make the money. Nothing wrong with that. Notwithstanding the study and time required, you still can expect to work some strange hours while either purchasing or establishing a practice. As with flying or any other worthwhile endeavor, these things require a commitment. Not to mention servicing the debt of dental school loans.

As I see it, you can pick your poison. Just be sure you are as passionate about pulling teeth, draining abcesses, drilling teeth, building bridgework and getting recalcitrant insurance companies to pay you as you might have been at one time about flying cross-countries and shooting approaches perfectly to minima, breaking out for a perfect landing and simply enjoying a great day. If you can meet the passion test for whatever you choose, the money will take care of itself.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[bjsanders]

Great advice, keep it coming! The issue of passion is interesting. I went to flight school because I truly have a passion for flying. I have been around airlplanes my whole life because my dad is a pilot. I get a thrill every time I leave the ground. But I'm also passionate about playing guitar. I've played for around ten years, often I'll wake up on a weekend and play for many hours straight for the sheer pleasure of it. I've been in bands also, but I have never remotely considered playing guitar for a living. In reality, the idea of giging in smoke-filled bars just to make a living is not my idea of the good life. I can play guitar and start a band just for fun. I don't want to be an aviation burnout, like some glam-mullet-haired-burnt-out rocker. However, I think I could still nurture my love of flight by flying for fun. Even if I just fly an ultralight. I think I would enjoy flying for a living, but I would be very bitter if I missed too many holidays and then my company folded when I was making good money in my 40's.

Daddysquared, why do you feel the 121 life is terrible?

 

[weekendwarrior]

Sounds like you are talking yourself out of it. I don't think you need people here to do that for you. Think about this, we we always need dentists, but won't necessarily need pilots (not all of them anyway).

You can go work anywhere, make darn good money, and then buy a pretty freaking nice airplane(s) and fly for pleasure.

I say go cut your teeth in the dental industry. For me, I'm just an aviation nut that really has no desire to do anything else. It's not like I have alot of other ideas on what I could do! Heck, I'd pay for my job if I had the cash! (no flames, please, it's just a joke)

Seriously, you could make much more money and fly for pleasure and not get burned out.

 

[bjsanders]

Truth is, I'm not sure I even want to be dentist. However, I have researched the career and talked to many dentists and it appears to be an intellectually and monetarily rewarding career. I am beginning to realize that I may be a control freak. I want to have control of my destiny as much as possible and that is what satisfies me to a large degree. Maybe I would be better suited to some other entrepreneurial enterprise, sh*t if I know. Indecision is a curse and a virtue.

 

[daysleeper2621]

bjsanders,

I'm in the same position as you man. I'm 21 and in about 3 weeks will have completed my commercial rating and as of a few weeks ago was still questioning if this was what I wanted to do with my life. I don't know how far you are in your training but I fly 4-6 days a week doing the same exact manuevars, landings, and takeoffs day in and day out while also working a full time job. At the same time, I've always thought the people in the flight department at my airport were always out to show their egos everyday in anyway possible. Whether it was throwing me BS questions during stage checks, giving us the craziest quiz questions every day in ground school, or just acting like they were the king of the airport. But the point is, we are all equal and the people that you're fed up with now in your flight department are never going to make it anywhere because they're egos are going to piss everyone else off along the way or they'll always be disgruntled no matter what position they ever hold. Some people are just too good for this world apparently. BUT, don't let anyone or anything help you decide what you want to do in life. Listen to other's opinions, but everyone's experience is going to be different from yours. Being a pilot has its high and lows just like being a dentist has its highs and lows. Think if you were a professional athlete. They make millions of dollars every years, yet you always read or hear in the news how they were arrested for drugs, sexual assault, etc. Even they aren't happy all they time and they only work for part of the year! I do believe that if you want to be a pilot, dentist, or whatever then you need to sit down by yourself and write down what you think are the benefits and disadvantages to the careers you are considering. And don't let instability in this job market decide what you truly love to do. Life would be too boring if there weren't ever any obstacles in the way or questions that couldn't be answered. And one last thing, remember that no matter how bad you think life is right now while training, it's only going to get better because we all start out at the bottom and we can only go up the ladder.

 

[vetteracer]

Flying is one of those careers that is best started early in life. The time energy and money can be just outrageous. I am 28 years old and have been working on my aviation career since I was 15. I had my first paying job when I was 22 and have a fairly stable flying job now. I fly for a 135 air ambulance operation. I am home every night, unless I get called out. My time away from home is about 700 hours a year. I make around 50K a year.

My job will never pay me 150K a year, but I will not starve and can live a family life. I started this career out with the airlines in mind and I will not be content in life until I reach that goal. I may be shooting myself in the foot, but passions are passions. I can never recall every wanting to do anything other then fly.

I have thought about medicine as well, even being a dentist. I just could not stand going to the same office every day, doing the same thing day in and day out. Also, the thought of cubicle life would just kill my spirit.

When I punch through the tops in the morning and see the sun that the rest of the world is shaded from I remember why I wanted to become a pilot.

You’re young. Go to dental school and chisel away at flying latter on. You can do both. Be a Dentist for 20 years and then fly for an airline. Your kids will be grown and you can have a second child hood.

Mark

 

[Canucit]

actually it would probably be best to get out while you can because this profession will knock you down again and again and again.... and you have to to have a really hard head to make a go at flying for a living it is a tough field and you have to have a real passion or you'll regret it

Good luck

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

pull teeth, dude, pull the teeth
while I think that dentistry is a whole lotta of vodoo, compared to other fields of medicine, the malpractice premiums are going sky high...so being a doctor may not pay so well in the near future

take it from a corporate slave turned CFI, med school should be a breeze compared to instructing

 

[bobbysamd]

Flying v. dentistry

I think I could still nurture my love of flight by flying for fun. Even if I just fly an ultralight. I think I would enjoy flying for a living, but I would be very bitter if I missed too many holidays and then my company folded when I was making good money in my 40's . . . .

The more I read from you, the more you sound like you want to be a dentist. As an airline pilot, you will have to work on plenty of holidays until you've built up enough seniority to hold good lines. For that matter, broadcasters work on holidays. I don't know of too many dentists who work on holidays; I don't know of too many dentists who even work Saturdays, although some come in for emergencies. Once more, the grass is always greener . . . . .

I believe others touched on this point above, but don't forget about malpractice insurance. All professions have to pay it, and it is expensive. Astute flight instructors should purchase it as well, in the form of professional liability insurance.

Once more, good luck with whatever you decide. It's sure nice to have choices . . . .

 

[Birdstrike]

One other point to consider, even though you're probably single now, you most likely won't be down the line. How important is having a stable marriage, kids who know you, and the ability to pay your bills on time?

You can't live out of the back seat of a car when you've got a family to support. And even if you're willing to do it that way, it's not fair to them to live just above poverty.

So I would pursue civilian flying as a vocation only if family life is of little importance to you now. If you'd rather build a family then choose a more stable profession and fly on the side as a hobby.

You could also consider military aviation as a possible compromise. The USAF for example, more than any other service, offers a reasonable degree of family stability, job security, and flying. Go to the military side of this board and check out the stories there of folks who found a home in the Air Guard or Reserve or who went active. Just another road to consider.

 

[TRLpilot]

if money is your main motivator then maybe you should consider law school.

imho, do what you enjoy. i say that after living the office life for nearly 10 years and not being fulfilled. my journey down the aviation path has barely begun so i can't comment on the down-and-out times, yet. but i'm moving forward with aviation knowing there may not be a pot of gold at the end, and it will likely be the journey that is more rewading than the end.

maybe i missed it in your statements somewhere but do you have a bachelor's degree yet? no matter what you do (fly or pull teeth) you will need one. after a year or two of bio chemistry and elementary med classes you will know if dentistry is the path for you.

 

[flint4xx]

Southwest is planning to hire 8000+ pilots between now and 2012.

Go to dental school and buy a forktail doctor killer of your own.