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career change??

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Rottie

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Posts
14
I have a question for the airline pilots that have been in the industry for a couple of years...looking back, if you had the chance to change your career, would you do it?

I have a chance to venture into a lucrative career, which would not allow me to fly commercially, only leisurely. Considerations include job security and financial security, living comfortably fairly soon. I love flying as much as the next guy, but do i love it enough to just get by and not know if im going to be furloughed soon? Your thoughts....?
 
Tried it, it lasted 2 years and now I'm back flying again.

I hate to be so clich'e but if its in your blood then you'll be miserable everytime you see a plane fly over and remember what life used to be like.
 
Take the money and RUN!

If it's lucrative enough, take it -- then go buy/rent yourself a Husky, Cirrus, Pitts -- whatever turns you on. The flying part of my job is FUN, but that's almost the only part.When you start thinking about low pay, TSA, long overnights away from your family, it's just not the job it used to be!
 
propjockey said:
If it's lucrative enough, take it -- then go buy/rent yourself a Husky, Cirrus, Pitts -- whatever turns you on. The flying part of my job is FUN, but that's almost the only part.When you start thinking about low pay, TSA, long overnights away from your family, it's just not the job it used to be!

Hey Brother,
You're absolutely right about this. I guess the question really is, what matters to you most?
Can one afford to live on crappy pay for the rest of your life.
 
I'm with rk772, but thats just me. The only other career I could even remotely be happy with is ATC. Anything that involves sitting behind a desk all day trying to market some ridiculous product that doesn't interest me in the least....sorry....I've done it and don't care to go back.
 
Why do all you guys think that the only other job besides aviation involves sitting behind a desk marketing wigets???

Open your minds people.

I would much rather fly for sport than spend half my life in a hotel room or terminal missing family, friends....and life in general.
 
SkyBoy1981 said:
I'm with rk772, but thats just me. The only other career I could even remotely be happy with is ATC. .

Me too, but I'm 32 which is past their max hiring age.
 
logjammer said:
Why do all you guys think that the only other job besides aviation involves sitting behind a desk marketing wigets???

Open your minds people.

I would much rather fly for sport than spend half my life in a hotel room or terminal missing family, friends....and life in general.

Its funny because I have instructed a lot of men and women who do VERY well for themselves in a variety of positions and yet most of them say that if they could go back they would do what I am doing. The people who "miss life" are the ones that don't like what they are doing and their life becomes looking forward to friday. I know a lot of guys who have been in the business for a long time and the quote begins as "it aint what it used to be" but it always ends with "but it sure beats working."
 
rk772 said:
I hate to be so clich'e but if its in your blood then you'll be miserable everytime you see a plane fly over and remember what life used to be like.

You hit it dead on.....memories would be your best and/or worst enemy!
 
msk2468 said:
Its funny because I have instructed a lot of men and women who do VERY well for themselves in a variety of positions and yet most of them say that if they could go back they would do what I am doing. The people who "miss life" are the ones that don't like what they are doing and their life becomes looking forward to friday. I know a lot of guys who have been in the business for a long time and the quote begins as "it aint what it used to be" but it always ends with "but it sure beats working."


Spoken like someone who has a lot of money and has never worked a day in this industry or a CFI with 1200 hours. I meet a lot of senior folks who say I wouldn't do this again if I were starting in this day and age.
 
When your values are clear - your decisions are easy.


Personally: I would've chased the money and purchased my own plane. This careers IS NOT what it was sold to me as in the late 90's. Today it's hassle, TSA, crappy schedules, low pay, bitter pilots, and questionable futures. I don't care what anybody says - money is part of the happiness equation. If you got none, life's a real bee-ach. If you have some it's easier - if you have 'nuff - life can be great.

You can get a good performing airplane for $500,000 - that's the route I'd go. And what's the price of missing family events (xmas, july 4th, etc) when your in some crappy hotel in some dirt city. Not to mention the divorce rate among pilots. Hope it helps...
 
I can't imagine leaving this industry. Where else can I find a job with 15-16 days off every month, 75-100K pay, and nice travel benefits to use on those off days. And the best part is that unlike other high-paying jobs, when I check out at the end of a trip, I don't take any work or stress home with me. Life is good. :)
 
I must admit I love my days off. I wouldn't last long working 5 or more days a week, every week.
 
There is most likely a select group of people hired by the regionals in the late 90s who have had a stellar career thus far.

They had a choice of airlines, were hired promptly, upgraded in record time and are now making 75-100 grand as RJ captains.

They are a very small anomoly in our generation of professional pilots.

Those hired in the early to mid 90s (not an easy feat in itself due to the glut of pilots in the market after the Eastern, Braniff, Pan-Am collapses) most likely are furloughed from the majors at this time.

Those hired in the early 00s are most likely trapped as F/Os for significantly longer than they thought they would be.

Personally, I think the industry is maturing. It will never again be the profession that was sold to us by our flight schools. So if I had that information in 1991 before I made the catestrophic error of seeking an aviation management degree (<-- moron) I would have pursued other interests.

I still would have earned a private and most likely an instrument rating, because those skills can be valuable nomatter what your profession. (and they're fun!) But I would have looked for a career with more stability, better work/life balance, and did I mention stability?

Anyhow, I guess my magic 8-ball must have been broken because I was brainwashed by the propaganda. I got the aviation management degree, went through half-a-dozen airlines, got furloughed, and have only recently recovered to what I feel is a career position.... and even now I wonder what the longevity of THIS position will be.

It's hard not to feel like chicken little when the sky is always falling.
 
FurloughedAgain said:
I still would have earned a private and most likely an instrument rating, because those skills can be valuable nomatter what your profession. (and they're fun!) But I would have looked for a career with more stability, better work/life balance, and did I mention stability?

I'm with you on this one. Who says you have to fly with an airline to enjoy flying and being around aviation. Let me toss out a few suggestions that some aquaintences of mine actually do in the real world and still fly some. Work at a trade like plumbing, heating/AC or home renovations. Make your own schedule and fly when you want to. Work as a police officer or fireman or EMT or ambulance driver etc. where you are on 24 or 3 days at a time and off the rest. Charter companies or flight schools love to find self employed pilots or pilots that have significant days off that they can be available to pick up a trip. Be a school teacher and pick up trips or CFI during the summer when flight scools are busiest. Best yet...work at a company that has explosive growth and stock options (like what happened to AOL) and retire and buy your own airplane. My point is that where there is a will there is a way to make it happen and you don't have to be with some airline to have a satisfying flying experience. Caveat...if you love flying the line and airline flying is what you love then do it. Life is too short to work in some cubicle unless, of course, you love cubicles.
 
Nindiri said:
I can't imagine leaving this industry. Where else can I find a job with 15-16 days off every month, 75-100K pay, and nice travel benefits to use on those off days. And the best part is that unlike other high-paying jobs, when I check out at the end of a trip, I don't take any work or stress home with me. Life is good. :)

I know plenty of people who own their own businesses and make more than 100K, usually work 3-4 days per week making sure their employees are up to par, most don't take their work home with them, and for about the price of a first class ticket, they fly around the country with Exec Jet. I don't know many airline pilots that have a life that good.
 
PoorJetDriver said:
Spoken like someone who has a lot of money and has never worked a day in this industry or a CFI with 1200 hours. I meet a lot of senior folks who say I wouldn't do this again if I were starting in this day and age.

Oh here we go. No I dont have a lot of money, and yes I am just an instructor until early next month, but this is irrelevant because I am making a point about what people who have been in the business for a long time (20-30 years) have told me. I happen to work at a place with a variety of industry people. Including furloughed UsAir and current United pilots yet this is what they tell me. Not once have I tried to claim that I personally know what it is like "on the line" so don't act high and mighty because you have 4,000 hours and a couple years in the regional industry. It really doesn't make you cool. By the way, I never get into this crap with anyone I am just tired of people looking down their noses at anyone with less hours. You have to start somewhere and no I have never done any PPT!...not that there is anything wrong with that.
 
I love flying aeroplanes. I hate the business of flying aeroplanes. But I can't find a job where I can play golf a lot, fly a bit and work less...........yet!!
 
I was one of the "born to fly" Riddle guys, got on with ACA when times were good, and was furloughed from FLYi (along with 700 of the most professional and dedicated airmen I have ever known). I couldn't imagine not flying.

3 months later, I work in a cubicle at an Aerospace trade association lobbying for US aerospace companies, and I am happy. Flying was in my blood, but I felt that after toiling for 3 years at ACA/FLYi and with the experience I attained, going back to another airline at $20K per year, commuting, and dealing with the same ol' BS just wasn't worth my time. Sure I miss flying. The jets going into Reagan fly right over the office and I miss flying the River Visual. But when I think of what those pilots probably talked about on that flight (scope, pensions, scheduling, crappy pay, reserve, mergers, pay cuts, downgrades, furloughs, time away from home, etc etc) I realize that the QOL I have now is so much better. Having evenings off to meet friends for happy hours, weekends to go out downtown, volunteer, run a race, etc, holidays, and being able to eat something other than Panda Express has totally spoiled me to life outside the cockpit.

Will I go back? If the opportunity arises, it willbe a tough call. I have found volunteer flying for Angel Flight and part time CFI'ing to be a good way to keep the flying kicks while staying current.

It all comes down to a personal decision. But take it from someone who was obsessed with flying, once on the outside, stability is a wonderful thing to have.

~AD
 
I'll have to agree with "Always Defferred" on this one. I too left ACA/FLYI to join the ranks of "normal" people. Having had enough of "those conversations" - all you see at the airport is the glammer side of things. It's really a difficult lifestyle commuting, low pay (though ACA was pretty good as far as Regionals go), time away from home, divorce rate - the cons far outweight the pros. It's a lot to pay to get to hand fly an ILS to mins once or twice a month - that's the only thing that got my blood going anymore towards the end. I saw the end coming over a year ago and planned accordingly - opting to start a practice that is holding it's own with the potential to really take off as I build up a client base. I'm now chasing the money with plans to eventually fly on MY time in MY airplane - and I have the least amount of stress ever. Meanwhile, I've picked up a contract on some small jets to stay in the air, stay current, and fly something new - all the while planning my escape from professional flying as a means of making a living. Heck - with partners just a few hundred thousand can get you into some excellent equipment and take you anywhere you want (it's a lot, yes...but at the same time, not that much). I'm not looking back at "the line". It was a blast - but I'm happy to be home, driving to work, and have the chance to build something for myself and my family for our future. Just ask a UAL or USAir guy about the "future" - (who'd of thought 20 years ago, right?). In the end - I'd say take a professional job to "get it out of your system" and get some quality hours - then when you're ready to get your own bird the insurance folks won't laugh as hard :).

-hot in the desert-
 
What I don't understand is why so many pilots want to go to work, then sit there all day and discuss the ails of the industry. It's like they want to make themselves feel bad, and put their mood/attitude into the sh*tter. Whenever I see one of these conversations begin, my eyes usually glaze over and I start thinking about playing golf and drinking some beer. Then I start talking about it, and the other guy does, and soon we just fly the airplane and talk about anything but the airline industry.

I'm at a point right now where I know for a fact that I'd enjoy more stability, more nights at home, and more money. Those are givens. But, I also know that when I go to work I really enjoy what I'm doing, and normally I really enjoy the people I work with. I think working with such a wide variety of people in a career path that is constantly challenging me to be better with every flight has done a lot for my own self-improvement. I've lately spent more time getting into books trying to gain more knowledge for this job, so I don't just "do it." I "do it well." I look forward to each flight, working harder and harder to get it perfect. It never is perfect, but there is the challenge! You might have had a great takeoff, flown the climb profile perfectly, found smooth altitudes, gotten shortcuts, flown the arrival right on the money, and had a smooth landing... but when you flew through the localizer back there 15 miles out, that needed correcting. So you try again the next leg.

I've also found that this job can really open your eyes to the world around you. Get a map, find some info about your local overnight, and explore. When it's clear, I don't sit there with USA Today. I break out my map, and look at various cities, lakes, rivers, and how they all relate. We have a unique position up front to see just exactly how the Appalachian mountains form. You can see the border between Louisiana and Mississippi on the Mississippi river, and how it looks just like the state outline on any map. For instance, I never know that the 24 mile bridge over Lake Ponchinarian north of New Orleans was the longest bridge in the world. But I saw it, and it sure was long.

What about the food, the drink, and the people? Just on this last trip, I was able to go out on Hermosa Beach in Los Angeles, which is something I probably wouldn't have done if I wasn't at work. Or getting to a small town in Louisiana, and searching out some alligator to eat. None of my friends here in Chicago working in an office, at the police department, or taking classes can say any of that. I called one friend and asked what she did this weekend... she said "worked on some things for the office, and went out Saturday." That consisted of drinking with people from the office downtown, at like $10 per martini. That's great, just not the life for me.

I think people need to stop focusing so much on all the negatives, and start enjoying the positives. Yes, in the back of your mind you should be cognisant and prepared for furlough, Chapter 11, mergers, acquisitions, base closure, contract negotiations, LOAs, and all the rest. But they shouldn't be your focus, or all you think about at work. Have a plan of action and a strong stance for all those topics, and be ready for them. Bad things happen... they are happening a lot right now. Just like most other downswings in the industry over the past 60 years.

I just hope I never get to the point where life has beat me down. Just go to work, enjoy working with new people and old friends. If your crew sucks, have a computer, a book, or go out by yourself. Lay by the pool. So for a walk. Just don't rot away in your room thinking of how terrible you have it.
 
propjockey said:
If it's lucrative enough, take it -- then go buy/rent yourself a Husky, Cirrus, Pitts -- whatever turns you on. The flying part of my job is FUN, but that's almost the only part.When you start thinking about low pay, TSA, long overnights away from your family, it's just not the job it used to be!
I think you're onto something.

Two kinds of people are going to answer this question differently.

2nd year FO's, still living with their parents...who get goo goo eyed just looking at planes.

12th year CA's, with 10,000 hours and a second or third wife, who have to see a chiropractor on a regular basis.
 
msk2468 said:
Oh here we go. No I dont have a lot of money, and yes I am just an instructor until early next month, but this is irrelevant because I am making a point about what people who have been in the business for a long time (20-30 years) have told me. I happen to work at a place with a variety of industry people. Including furloughed UsAir and current United pilots yet this is what they tell me. Not once have I tried to claim that I personally know what it is like "on the line" so don't act high and mighty because you have 4,000 hours and a couple years in the regional industry. It really doesn't make you cool. By the way, I never get into this crap with anyone I am just tired of people looking down their noses at anyone with less hours. You have to start somewhere and no I have never done any PPT!...not that there is anything wrong with that.

I don't care how many hours you have but by the time you get out there and try to live on FO pay for a few years with a family and career prospects that are diminishing you might have a different perspective. I wish you all the luck in the world. This job can be great but with commuting, substandard pay and limited ability to advance it can get frustrating. I fly with furloughed US Air guys all the time and many are miserable, some are not it all depends. However, there will not be enough mainline jobs for all of us if this outsourcing of mainline flying continues. Regionals are already flying 90 seat aircraft, how long until they fly narrowbody equipment?
 
FlyChicaga - you're right. We shouldn't focus on the negatives because they will drag you down - I agree. But the fact is that those same negatives start to really hit home when you weigh out the "bang for the buck" - at least for some / many of us.

I too experienced many things I wouldn't have experienced without flying the line. But I didn't have a family to worry about, a future to think of, or a care in the world. I'm not saying you don't have those things - but when I sat down and weighed out the issues, thought back to all the phone calls to family on holidays (and I've had every xmas off), and looked at what the traveling / commutting was doing to me physically - it just wasn't worth it anymore. Like they say - this is a great job for the 23 y/o single guy/gal. It's not ideal (unless you're WAY senior) for the family guy with many other interests / pursuits outside of aviation.

If I was paid appropriately for my job (5th year displaced CA now FO) I would reconsider. But $45K for all the BS (the TSA alone demands I get a raise for thier crap) is a rip off for me. I firmly believe all pilots (talking airline here, not much experience with corporate) should be close to $100K after 5 years. It would take me another 5+ years to make double my old pay at my old airline. Am I willing to sit it out at another company and "hope" I make it? No.

The great thing is that here in America we can have this conversation and we can act on it. You want to fly - great do it! I want to pursue other interests and fly on the side - great I'm doin it.

The original poster wanted information about a career change. While the negatives are easy to post - the positives do exist, for sure! (Man do I miss jumpseating to see friends / family). Hopefully it's these discussusions that "glaze your eyes over" that will help him / her make a more informed decision before telling the boss to shove it!

AZT
 
As i sat and read everyone's opinions, it reinforced flying the line isn't the only way to kindle your love for flying. Like many of you have stated, there are people who love flying, and will do so for 45k a year. Thats great, and more power to them. But i think based on the experience and skills required, airline pilots are underpaid and underappreciated, and each one of us is deemed expendable to someone who is underqualified and cheaper. Until pilots can unify and demand compensation equal to the task being performed nothing will change. That being said, I dont see anything changing in the near future. You will cap out at 90-100k, which is a good salary, dont get me wrong, but not until later in your career. Its going to get worse before it really gets better.

I really do love flying. The thrill of lifting off of the ground, or a greased landing, no one will contest those are completely incredible to experience, every time i do it. But i truly believe i am worth more than what the airlines are willing to part with. Money isnt everything. It wont give you happiness. But not having money is a much bigger problem than having too much of it. Some food for thought...

Thanks to all who have contributed their two cents. Being at the impass that I am it is appreciated. safe flying to all....
 
Fly Chicaga,

I like to think that most of the people I worked with at ACA/FLYi would say I made an effort to be positive and foster unity. I tried to excel in the job, ran some social events for our small Cincinnati base, was involved in the union, etc.

What it all came down to was I don't want to be a 50 yr old man with a family who's been furloughed 3 times, been through 2 ch 11s, a buyout, 4 paycuts, 2 displacements, THEN decide to try something outside flying when all you have on your resume are flying jobs.

Right now I'm in an entry level Project Mgmt job working at a non-profit org. It's not glamorous, but I work a lot with the Feds, with the industry, with the Euros, learning a completely different side of the industry (mx and manufacturing), I'm meeting a lot of great people, learning good business skills, learning the lingo of Washington, making some decent money and living a good social life. I also get to use my creative side and see hard work pay off rather than just follow laid out procedures all day.

I believe in planning for the worst and if I decide to get back into flying at some point and do run into bad luck again, I think it will be beneficial to have diversity in the background which is why I am doing what I'm doing.

Goodluck!

~AD
 

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