Career Advice

[qschaller]

I am currently thinking about attending flight school but I am very concerned about the current condition of the airline industry. As all of you know the training and time spent would be a huge investment and I am getting mixed signals from people on what the job situation will be like when I am ready to enter the field.



Right now I am leaning towards the Delta Connections Academy. What kind of reputation do they have and are they worth the higher cost?



Also I really need a good picture of what I can expect when I am done. I know that in the beginning it is very rough, not getting a whole lot of flying time, at very low pay, but how fast does it pick up? Basically what I am asking is five years down the road am I going to be bankrupt and only making $25,000 or even have a job at all.



Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[cessna_driver2]

I am currently thinking about attending flight school but I am very concerned about the current condition of the airline industry. As all of you know the training and time spent would be a huge investment and I am getting mixed signals from people on what the job situation will be like when I am ready to enter the field.



Right now I am leaning towards the Delta Connections Academy. What kind of reputation do they have and are they worth the higher cost?



Also I really need a good picture of what I can expect when I am done. I know that in the beginning it is very rough, not getting a whole lot of flying time, at very low pay, but how fast does it pick up? Basically what I am asking is five years down the road am I going to be bankrupt and only making $25,000 or even have a job at all.



Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

This has been brought up countless times. Run a search the the BB and find what your looking for.

In short, it is a long road. If you in it for the money get out now. Cuz the money will not come anytime soon. Everyone pays their dues one way or another.
It is a long road to go down. But if you really enjoy it & keep w/ it. Then eventually it will pay out for you. Shop around for schools there are some good schools. It also depends on how much you want to lay out for training. There are alot of other methods to pay for flight training. AOPA has loans and lines of credits for members. There are also schools that offer online courses and you fly via part 61 for school credit.

I would suggest a non-aviation degree just to have someting to fall back on encase things don't go as planned.

Good luck

 

[Canucit]

I would highly recomend that you do not get into aviation it will drag you into the dirt it will make you beat your head into the wall so many times and you will wonder why you still do itFlying is like a drug once you do it and break the boundrys of earth you'll know... get your private's license and fly for fun but
if you want to make a living at it, just read all the post from those of us that do
it is real hard to get employment you pay your dues for a real long time, and then scream for joy when you get paid to fly
best thing I can tell you is do your homework well before you leap in this business good luck
Canucit

 

[FN FAL]

I am currently thinking about attending flight school but I am very concerned about the current condition of the airline industry.

I wouldn't worry about the CURRENT condition of the airline industry. I would worry about the FUTURE condition of the airline industry. You won't see an airline job for at least five to six years after you plunk your money down...and even that's a big gamble.

 

[flyifrvfr]

Although the airlines is where most people want to go, there are plenty of opportunities outside of the airlines. Corporate, government,and fractionals, will continue to thrive and are viable options to consider. Each of these jobs will require you to pay your dues, and I see continued growth for fractionals.

 

[Pilot124]

Give it a shot. I did and won't look back. It is alot of work and dedication but worth it in my opinion. I am the few on here that LOVE doing what I am doing and wouldn't change it for anything even through the ups and downs. Live your dream brother...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

do a lot of research. (here and elsewhere)

Think long and hard about entering this field. MANY of us would NOT do it again if we had the chance. I have been lucky to have decent jobs, but there are better ways to make a living that will afford you the fun of aviation.

Read about the "airline pilots" here who pack frozen soup on trips because they cant afford food, steal dogfood off the garbage buffet at the Days Inn, make less than 20K/yr and live -basically- like homeless folks. And these are not struggling teenagers mind you -- these are late 20's early 30's educated folks who are currently AT where that academy ASPIRES you to be. Its really pretty unbelieveable if you ask me. Is this how a 30yr old should live? I think not.

Is this the "paying your dues" stage? seems like a pretty long stage to me...Maybe by the time you are there it will be a quick and painless transition to a great big airline job? doubt it.

I wouldn't bet my future if I was you...

Maybe check out the fractional/corp side? I cant imagine the forecast there is much better. Decent corp gigs are few and far between and who knows where the fracs will be in 5-7 yrs....

Hate to sound like a complete pessimist, I do have a great job and consider myself lucky...but there are better ways to make a living. The fun does wear off...the only benefit left is the travel and the days off..

Summary......get a better job and fly for fun.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

You need to love flying. I am not talking about wearing stripes on your shoulders, or flying the big iron (there will always be bigger iron to fly), or the prestige, or the money.

I am talking, would you be willing to fly for a living if they offered you food/clothing/shelter and nothing more?

There will always be jobs for those who really want to fly for a living. It's a "if you build it, they will come" type of thing. No job is fun 24/7/365.

 

[bobbysamd]

Aviation career

Do run a board search of Comair Aviation Academy and/or Delta Connection Academy. You will receive plenty of information.

Even with an improving economy, the airline outlook seems bleak. Just look at the news about how United wants give-backs of its pension plans and how it is applying to the Bankruptcy Court for that relief. I believe there is news about Delta wanting to restructure its debt and equity. USAir isn't going great. Among the majors, only a few out of several, e.g. jetBlue and Southwest, seem to be thriving.

Let's assume for discussion's sake that these airlines will survive their troubles and will do better. First, they have to bring back the pilots they furloughed shortly after 911. It will take years to fully assimilate and retrain them, which means it will take years before they need new pilots. Hiring at the majors tends to drive hiring industry-wide. The majors pick up regional pilots, but if the majors do not need new pilots regional pilots will stay put. And, on down the chain.

Finally, more and more majors are outsourcing their flying to the regionals. That may mean more work at that level, but, again, like it or not, it will mean that regionals turn out to be the final career stop for those pilots. Regional pilots tend to be younger overall than those at the majors, which means more years for them to stay until they retire- which reduces the opportunities available for newer pilots.

There might be opportunities at the corporate and freight levels, but, even then, hiring at the majors drives a lot of hiring at those levels.

I'd think about it carefully if I were you. An aviation career is nothing done on the cheap and requires a significant commitment. Opportunities which seemed so great and many even a few years ago are lesser and fewer today.

Good luck with however you proceed.

 

[cynic]

First of all, ignore the nay sayers here. There IS a pilot shortage and they are trying to keep it that way.

Massive retirements and a lack of new pilots is creating an environment where you can easily make 200K a year or more in just a few years.



Go to Comair Academy, Gulf Stream Academy, Pan Am Academy, Flight Safety… go anywhere... but go now… its time to cash in on a super career.



You can make back that training money within a year or two.



Hope to see you on line flying the big iron dude!

 

[pilotyip]

Fantastic career

It has been a fantastic adventure, I would do it over again in a heart beat. Those who get the 100 K retirement are lucky. I have made a great number of friends in this business and we still stay in touch. It was never about lifestyle; it was about being there in flight. I have never made "big money"; in fact I have never made good regional Capt.'s pay. Yea I would have liked to make more, but no complaints, I have been real lucky and it has been an adventure and I would do it all over again, particularly the military flying. I would definitely do all again it has been an adventure, I wanted to fly from the first time I saw a P-51 Mustang buzz the National Guard Armory back in 1948.

 

[pilotyip]

hiring boom

Remember the next hiring boom will start in June of 2007, plus or minus two moon cycles.

 

[501261]

If you get into aviation, get in it for the right reasons. Don’t get in aviation because you want to make money (you won’t), don’t do it because uniforms look “cool” (bellhops have better uniforms), don’t do it because you want to travel (a hotel room, is a hotel room). While flying is a great job, who do you think has more fun flying that regional F/O that has is completing an 8 leg day on a 5 day trip which included a standup overnight flying a B1900, or that business owner taking his Pitt out on a Saturday morning?

 

[bobbysamd]

Hiring bomb

Remember the next hiring boom will start in June of 2007, plus or minus two moon cycles.

As Ronald Reagan said many "moons" ago, "There you go again."

You don't know that for sure, Yip. No one knows it for sure. One definitely should not consider an aviation career on the basis of anecdotal data, moon cycles, tea leaves, tarot cards, fortune tellers, ouija boards, flight school advertising and, especially, Kit Darby pilot shortage propaganda.

Consider the career in terms of whether it offers sufficient stability to suit your needs, if it is something that can provide relatively steady work and, most of all, if it is something you're doing for the love of it and not because of the supposed glamor.

 

[starcheck1]

a wise man once said.... "scrap aviation and become a plumber ...there will always be crappers to unplug."

 

[bobbysamd]

Plumbing v. piloting

a wise man once said.... "scrap aviation and become a plumber ...there will always be crappers to unplug."

You're not kidding. My plumber charges something like $70 per hour plus a truck charge!

 

[rattler]

Finding a flying job that pays $25K a year, straight out of flight school is very optimistic. You realized this, so you go to college and get a four year degree in something that pays, afterwards you get your ratings at a place like all ATP's. You drop the $35K and and get it done quick. Then you will make less than $30K a year for the next 10 years, you may peak up to $40k/yr or so, once or twice only to get furloughed and start over. And that other degree? You will need that to get a job to support yourself, so you can afford your career. When you are done paying your dues, you will probably be well into your thirties, and get your first job as a CA on an RJ making $50K/yr. Meanwhile don't forget the wife at home that you will almost never get to see. Ohh and don't forget the kids, you will miss them too, from long overnights in places like Grand Rapids, or worse Saltillo, Mexico. But It's all good because the majors are hiring and you'll soon have enough PIC to get hired. By this time you are 35 years old. Well, I don't know if you read the paper, but those big paychecks the major guys have been making...they might not be there for you, but you take the job anyway. Well good news, you get hired at your dream carrier making $35K/year, but that's not bad because next year you get $45K and you might even see $90K as an FO on a 737. Wow! But now you are 40, and the economy takes another dump, and the furloughs start again. Off to the the street you go. But wait good news! Your airlines regional partner has a flow though agreement! Great you still have a job! Back in the RJ making $35K/yr. Then after a few years things get better, and you are recalled back to your cushy 737, and things go well for a few years. You make CA on the 737, now your making the big bucks! $160K/yr. But wait...Managment wants 30% of that back because of rising fuel costs. So you take the paycut, and managment in turn lowers ticket prices to undercut the rest of the industry. But this plan fails and your airline enters Capter 11. You slide back down the list list, but this time you avoid the furlough and get pushed back to FO. But that's not bad, because your still making $90K/yr, but then comes the second round of concessions. Ouch now I'm back to $60K. The word around the crew room is liquidation. You hope everyday shows improvement, but it doesn't. You have convinced your self that anyday will be the airline's last. Then comes the big announcement. The airline has be purchased by another carrier, and the seniority lists are merged. Your job has been saved, and just in time for retirement too! So you turn 60 only to open the USA Today and see that your new airline will no longer be funding it's pensions due to economical strains caused by the merger.

Now do you really want to put your family though this? If so, sign right up! We would love to have you on board.

 

[pilotyip]

$70/hr that is cheap

My plummer here in the YIP area charges $100/hr, in 1/2 hour blocks, plus a dead time charge from his last assignment. But I will say, he is fast and knows his stuff.

 

[FracCapt]

Right now I am leaning towards the Delta Connections Academy. What kind of reputation do they have and are they worth the higher cost?

If you can swing it......forget all of those places. Learn to fly at the cheapest(in terms of money YOU have to plunk down) place and the place that guarantees you a job for 10+ years after you finish....the military.

Seriously, look into it. It's tough to get into good jobs in the civilian world when you're low time. Get some of the best flight training in the world, travel the world, and get to fly. If you're young, you can make a career out of it and retire with 15+ years to fly for airlines before mandatory retirement.