Captains please teach etiquette

[CFIfornow]

I have been around for a few years now and have heard the bashing of Pinnacle pilots on this board as well as other places. While Pinnacle doses have a young group of pilots, those that I have met have been respectable people. However last night I had the distinct pleasure of sitting next to the biggest Pinnacle cliché that you can imagine.

First off non-reving with your shiny new flight case and roller bag is fine. Ad in the tee shirt, baggy shorts and okleys upside down on the back of your head….. not the preferred method.

Yes I do know that the Saab has props and that the airplane you fly is faster. But I still get paid more to fly it (as a F/O) then you do. (no, I will not be moving to a “real airplane” anytime soon)

Yes that pesky 2000hr total time requirement to upgrade is a b*tch. However some people have waited longer and there are even those who feel that a little more experience isn’t a bad thing.

No I do not want to come work for Pinnacle. If I did I would have applied a long time ago.


Captains if you have the opportunity please take the time educate your new hires on some of the things that happen out side of the airplane. A little bit of etiquette as well as checking your attitude at the airport entrance go a long way.

CFI

 

[Pilot124]

You should of stood up and told him what a dork he is and then kick him in the coin purse.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Generation Me: Coming to a Flight Deck Near You

 

[stooge]

Teach etiquette and also how to leave an aircraft. Every pilot should leave it set up for the next crew with the paperwork started, fms initialized and anything you can do to help the next crew out. If you don't want to do that, at least clean up your sh!t. I love having a used bottle of water left under the rudder pedals. Be a professional.

 

[JettBoii]

New ASA F/O's:

1) Put your seat back all the way up.

2) Move your seat all the way back (easier for the next guy to heave that 35
pound flight case into its home).

3) Remove your water bottles from the "flight case holder". (Refer to reason
above).

4) Throw all of your trash away.

5) If you are low on fuel slips/load manifests and you have time then please
refill them.

6) If you are on the last page of the flight log then make a note in the
remarks section. If you have time then please get another; if you do not
know then ask where they are. Someone will be glad to help.

7) Wipe your cookie/cracker crumbs off of the seat.

8) Dial in ATIS/CD on your RTU. Place a load manifest on the chart holder.
Hang the hand mic on that pen in that fancy leather pen holder.


I know your busy with calling in the times and finding the ship and gate of
your next flight, but with more experience you will learn to incorporate this
into your routine and the next guy will be just as thankful as you were.

 

[~~~^~~~]

JettBoii - You are right, good post. What amazes me is that when you brief them on what is considered courteous to other FO's, they either make an excuse, or stare blankly before turning back to their i-pod. Eighty percent of the time they will sit there, let you pull a load manifest out of your flight bad and not figure out that THEY need to get up and go re-stock for the next guy.

They act like the Captain's & everyone else's job is to get everything set up so that they can go fly. What are they thinking?

Every generation seems to think there is something about the next generation. I guess I'm getting old because while all these pilots are good guys, they have no consideration for their other FO's and the crews they fly with. Best I can tell it is a symptom of the 200/50 hour advancement to a regional jet. It must be true about not appreciating something when it comes so easy.

What I wonder is, "how would they would behave if they were a new hire at FedEx, or Delta?"

And for the 60 to 80% that flew night cargo, flew at another airline, or who just have a work ethic and pride this does not apply to you. This is directed at the David Clark stealing, pass benefit selling, sit on your butt and say the walk around is complete when 3B has not even been powered up for the day guy.

 

[stooge]

Right on, thanks jet boiii for writing down the rules of the flight deck. I work much better with the rant format, but like your point-by-point outline.

 

[JettBoii]

I forgot. If the sun has turned the flight deck into an EZ bake oven then please put the sunscreens up on yours and the captain's side. If they have disappeared then call maintenance and they will bring you another set.

Thanks

 

[Rook]

I forgot. If the sun has turned the flight deck into an EZ bake oven then please put the sunscreens up on yours and the captain's side. If they have disappeared then call maintenance and they will bring you another set.

Thanks

You guys have sunscreens? Well I guess at my last airline we did too, only they were called charts

 

[CA1900]

HA! Same here. When I got done covering up the window with charts or newspapers, the thing looked like it was ready for the paint shop.

 

[McNugget]

Teach etiquette and also how to leave an aircraft. Every pilot should leave it set up for the next crew with the paperwork started, fms initialized and anything you can do to help the next crew out. If you don't want to do that, at least clean up your sh!t. I love having a used bottle of water left under the rudder pedals. Be a professional.

Damn right! We made that policy at my airline (not a regional) but most did it anyway. I don't want your half-full water bottle or leftover cheese from your crew meal.

 

[Mookie]

i had to follow a guy for a whole month who left the cockpit like the floor at Gilleys...peanut/sunflower shells all over the place, 1/2 empty water bottles, and other garbage. i started putting it all in a bag and putting it in his v-file. he didn't get the picture for a few days, so I stapled his v-file shut, and put a big red post it note sticking out.saying "I'm not your goddamned maid..." he eventually got the point.

mookie

 

[SkyW120]

must have been someone in Houston?

JB


"dude, she said unit"..

i had to follow a guy for a whole month who left the cockpit like the floor at Gilleys...peanut/sunflower shells all over the place, 1/2 empty water bottles, and other garbage. i started putting it all in a bag and putting it in his v-file. he didn't get the picture for a few days, so I stapled his v-file shut, and put a big red post it note sticking out.saying "I'm not your goddamned maid..." he eventually got the point.

mookie

 

[SplitBar]

It's hard to teach common courtesy and consideration. Either you have it or you don't.

 

[shamrock]

8) Dial in ATIS/CD on your RTU. Place a load manifest on the chart holder.
Hang the hand mic on that pen in that fancy leather pen holder.

While I agree with the spirit of your post I have to say that I don't really care about this part of it. I'll be twisting the knob before I notice that the ATIS (as well as CLC) freq is already set. Same with the manifest. I'll have one partially filled out before I notice the one you left clipped to the yoke. Yes, I really am that oblivious to my surroundings. And having the handmike hanging on the pen just gives me something else to get tangled up with when I'm getting into the seat.

 

[BOHICAgain]

biggest pet pieve is when the last crew has auto update on the atis and forgets to hit stop once the are done I HATE getting the arrival ATIS while taxing out or on climb out...also

Leave the MFD clean along with the MDA/DH and the flight director and DELETE the dam flight plan its easy.

 

[shamrock]

Jeez, this has the potential to turn into another "With you" thread.

 

[Jmoney]

This one time....

Yeah, I agree totally, this is becoming a " with you" thread!
This one time, in band camp-I stuck a flute......i.-well you get the idea!
-Rock-Rock!

 

[MarineGrunt]

Other than common courtesy (picking up after yourself, etc), are these new FO's supposed to magically know these nit-picky things at birth? They don't teach this stuff in ground school, so they aren't going to know or do any of it until they are either taught or are on the line long enough to figure it out. If there's a new rash of young punk FO's who don't have any courtesy, it's only because there hasn't been any captains who've cared enough to get them in line. I'm not saying this as any defense to some idiot FOs' out there, but think about it next time you are walking away from the airplane, shaking your head and just itching to post something about it on flightinfo. How about taking a couple extra seconds to give some guidance...?

 

[McNugget]

Other than common courtesy (picking up after yourself, etc), are these new FO's supposed to magically know these nit-picky things at birth? They don't teach this stuff in ground school, so they aren't going to know or do any of it until they are either taught or are on the line long enough to figure it out. If there's a new rash of young punk FO's who don't have any courtesy, it's only because there hasn't been any captains who've cared enough to get them in line. I'm not saying this as any defense to some idiot FOs' out there, but think about it next time you are walking away from the airplane, shaking your head and just itching to post something about it on flightinfo. How about taking a couple extra seconds to give some guidance...?

They should be learning that ******************** on IOE.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Other than common courtesy (picking up after yourself, etc), are these new FO's supposed to magically know these nit-picky things at birth? They don't teach this stuff in ground school, so they aren't going to know or do any of it until they are either taught or are on the line long enough to figure it out. If there's a new rash of young punk FO's who don't have any courtesy, it's only because there hasn't been any captains who've cared enough to get them in line. I'm not saying this as any defense to some idiot FOs' out there, but think about it next time you are walking away from the airplane, shaking your head and just itching to post something about it on flightinfo. How about taking a couple extra seconds to give some guidance...?

For what it's worth, I try to teach every FO I fly with by example...sadly very few care to pull themselves away from their cell phones and IPODS to take the minute or two that would be required to accomplish this. I appreciate the very few that seem to give a sh!t. It used to be a rare day we would takeover an A/C that wasn't set up, cleaned up and ready to go...now, not so much!

 

[bailey3083]

For what it's worth, I try to teach every FO I fly with by example...sadly very few care to pull themselves away from their cell phones and IPODS to take the minute or two that would be required to accomplish this. I appreciate the very few that seem to give a sh!t. It used to be a rare day we would takeover an A/C that wasn't set up, cleaned up and ready to go...now, not so much!

I use to do that with every FO but if they did not want to setup I would do it as there is nothing mroe uplifting then getting into a new A/C during a long day and seeing some one took just alittle time to make your job just that little easier.
I think the reason the FO's are how they are today is because Mom and Dad are not teaching the basic etiquette as are parents did.

Bailey

 

[BigPappa]

I am not too picky, just take your trash out and leave it clean!

 

[Kream926]

maybe im just the best fo ever or i had a really good ioe capt but i set up for the next crew...theres not much to do in the saab

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Why are IOE captains putting up with letting new hire FO's talk on their cellphones and listen to their IPODs?

That's the biggest thing I've gotten from this thread so far.

 

[DX Rick]

Why are IOE captains putting up with letting new hire FO's talk on their cellphones and listen to their IPODs?

That's the biggest thing I've gotten from this thread so far.

IOE captains should be the ones teaching this behavior, not regular line captains.

IOE Captain will make the new hire feel as if he HAS to do it. Where a line captain will come across as a "d*ck" to the new hire who knows it all.

It also just creates a bad setting between the two pilots while they're on a trip together. The captain will feel as if he's baby sitting, while teaching proper etiquette.

Take it to the training department. IOE isn't teaching how to fly the airplane...all that much. It's more of how it's done "On the line" ....so let the IOE guys teach them proper etiquette. Everything from how to dress while nonreving, how to act, allowing all paying pax off the airplane before you, how to talk within ear shot of passengers, how to set up the cockpit for the next guy....basically, how to be a professional pilot.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

IOE captains should be the ones teaching this behavior, not regular line captains.

IOE Captain will make the new hire feel as if he HAS to do it. Where a line captain will come across as a "d*ck" to the new hire who knows it all.

It also just creates a bad setting between the two pilots while they're on a trip together. The captain will feel as if he's baby sitting, while teaching proper etiquette.

Take it to the training department. IOE isn't teaching how to fly the airplane...all that much. It's more of how it's done "On the line" ....so let the IOE guys teach them proper etiquette. Everything from how to dress while nonreving, how to act, allowing all paying pax off the airplane before you, how to talk within ear shot of passengers, how to set up the cockpit for the next guy....basically, how to be a professional pilot.

That is an excellent post. Unfortunately, IOE has become more about pushing guys through ASAP and moving on to the next one. This is not a reflection on the line check guys who do IOE, rather it is an unfortunate fact that comes with hiring 40 250 hour pilots a month. It's all an IOE guy can do to get them close to the point that they are not an abject menace out on the line. In a perfect world, IOE would include lessons on "how it's done on line", an international destination or two, pointers on how to work the operational side of the airline, etc. etc. etc. Unfortunately, there's just no time. More and more, it falls on the line captains to teach etiquette and "the right way to do things". Unfortuately, too many line captains are more than willing to let this stuff slide in order to avoid seeming like a "dick".

Of course, there's the whole "Generation Me" argument also, but that's a different rant for a different night.

Bottom line.. Captains.. step up. Guide your FOs.... nicely. Teach them how it's done on line. Don't be afraid to teach technique. Above all, if one of your new FOs thinks it's acceptable to leave the cockpit a mess, then by all means, make them clean up after themselves. It's in the FOM (ASA's anyway) as an FO duty. If your kind guidance doesn't yield acceptable results, there's always the Professional Standards committee.

 

[DX Rick]

That is an excellent post.

Thanks, I try for one good one a year. That was it, so I better print it out and frame it.

Of course, there's the whole "Generation Me" argument also, but that's a different rant for a different night.

Bottom line.. Captains.. step up. Guide your FOs.... nicely. Teach them how it's done on line. Don't be afraid to teach technique. Above all, if one of your new FOs thinks it's acceptable to leave the cockpit a mess, then by all means, make them clean up after themselves. It's in the FOM (ASA's anyway) as an FO duty. If your kind guidance doesn't yield acceptable results, there's always the Professional Standards committee.

I was going to say. If that FO isn't able to accept constructive criticism, you can always talk to Pro Stands.

Some guys, new or old, have to be able to drop the ego. It's not a game of "I'm better than you". It's bad enough we have to share each others germs, and get each other sick. I don't care if you didn't set the cockpit up for me. But haul your garbage and garbage bags away.
I don't mind you leaving a magazine in there, but my luck has sucked lately. All this year, it's "People" and "Us" magazines. I'm sick of reading about Hillary, Paris, Rosie and Lindsey. Leave me some "Guns and Ammo" or "Drunk Chicks"

 

[SBD-2U3]

New ASA F/O's:

1) Put your seat back all the way up.

2) Move your seat all the way back (easier for the next guy to heave that 35
pound flight case into its home).

3) Remove your water bottles from the "flight case holder". (Refer to reason
above).

4) Throw all of your trash away.

5) If you are low on fuel slips/load manifests and you have time then please
refill them.

6) If you are on the last page of the flight log then make a note in the
remarks section. If you have time then please get another; if you do not
know then ask where they are. Someone will be glad to help.

7) Wipe your cookie/cracker crumbs off of the seat.

8) Dial in ATIS/CD on your RTU. Place a load manifest on the chart holder.
Hang the hand mic on that pen in that fancy leather pen holder.


I know your busy with calling in the times and finding the ship and gate of
your next flight, but with more experience you will learn to incorporate this
into your routine and the next guy will be just as thankful as you were.

Seriously,
I can dial my own freqs and I don't need the cockpit "SET UP". The whole seat thing...ABSOLUTLY. It really is a pain in the a$$ to get that darn bag around the seat and in the bin. The radio and load manifest is a little bit OCD. :laugh:

 

[FmrFreightDog]

I don't mind you leaving a magazine in there, but my luck has sucked lately. All this year, it's "People" and "Us" magazines. I'm sick of reading about Hillary, Paris, Rosie and Lindsey. Leave me some "Guns and Ammo" or "Drunk Chicks"

It's a disturbing trend, no doubt. I do remember the days, not so long ago, when the FAs would bring that stuff to the cockpit and the pilots would actually say, "No thanks."