Cape Air 402 F/O???

[Way2Broke]

The huge bump in pay occurs when you upgrade to captain. I agree with you that flying single pilot IFR will make your instrument skills second to none. (Especially into ACK) I know of one Cape Air pilot that was turned down at a fractional because of the lack of crew experience and another that washed out of training at a regional because the crew environment was foreign to him. My point is, why go fly pistons when you can be flying jets or turboprops in a crew environment for equivalent pay with the same credentials. Everyone knows that PIC turbine is king. Things are alot different today, than they were even a couple of years ago. People use to go to Cape Air to stay, and those that didn't went there to gain expereince for turbine jobs. In today's hiring situation it is no longer necessary to use that stepping stone, so my point is why would you? If you do go to Cape Air, that is your choice. Just don't get complacent in your position. It happens all the time, and not just at Cape Air.

Also, it is important to note that there are three companies that fly from HYA to ACK using the same equipment and Cape Air pilots are the lowest paid of all three companies.

 

[Way2Broke]

Look at it this way, I know a pilot that went to Mesa. There is no doubt about it, Mesa is considered to be the bottom of the bottom by most people. He upgraded to Captain in about 4 months on the Dash-8. He is now building 121 PIC turbine time. Lets do the math on the pay shall we:

North Based Cape Air Pilot
35 hour per week guarantee @ $12.80 per duty hour
12.80 times 35/hrs= $448 a week
$448 x 52 weeks in a year= $23296

Mesa Dash 8

76 hour hour guarantee @ $38 = $2888/mo
$2888/mo x 12= $34656 a year

The bottom line is that right now you can get hired at MESA and make more than a cape air pilot FIRST YEAR. And with MESA you can live anywhere you want, with Cape Air you must live in base. And all of there bases have a extremely high cost of living.

 

[Taildraggaah]

Look I am not making the argument that one place is better than another but I just think that some of your statements are off base.

For example, I agree that Cape Air has high cost of living bases but Mesa does too (e.g, DEN,IAD,ORD,PHX,ATL,MCO,Hawaii)

I know that the the Cape can be expensive but if you don't live in one of the bases for Mesa moving can get expensive.

Also a first year 1900 CA makes $28272 at Mesa (source www.airlinepilotcentral.com) in case you couldn't hold Dash CA, and that five grand difference will take say a $2400 dollar hit for a crash pad if you decide not to move. Again if you live in the Boston/Cape area, you could save this money.

just my .02

"V-dub in da house Yah!"

 

[Way2Broke]

V-dub.

I am not saying that Cape Air is not the right choice for some people. I am just throwing out some food for thought for any perspective Cape Air applicants. Everybody has to make up his/her own mind about what is best for them at the time.

 

[zasca]

I think cape air is paying at least 15/hr these days.

 

[Way2Broke]

I think cape air is paying at least 15/hr these days.

Not as base pay, my figures are based upon first year pay without the Caribbean, Martha's Vineyard, or Nantucket base pay increases. First year base pay is 12.80 a duty hour. No questions about that.

 

[Way2Broke]

I thought I would elaborate on what I meant by the cost of living on Cape Cod being high. Here are examples of two entry level positions on Cape Cod. Notice the pay, its the same or better than Cape Air and they requires no formal training.

Part-time Cleaning Staff is needed to work day shift only. $12.60/hr to start.
APPLY IN PERSON Mon - Sat 8am - 4pm:
GOLD MEDAL BAKERY

and

COOK: Prepare & cook meals in Hyannis, MA. 35 hrs/wk 4pm-midnite. $12.92/hr,​

I also thought I would elaborate on what I meant by Cape Air is the lowest paid airline of three airlines providing service to Nantucket. This example weighs Island Air against Cape Air and their pay structure. Its more "apples to apples" than the MESA vs Cape Air example.

Island Air starts at $15.00 plus $4/leg. In the summer there pilots log 16 legs, less during the slow season. I would estimate a average of 10 legs per day average year round. I'd say that Island and Cape Air pilots average 10 legs a day if you average out the busy season and the slow season. Thats $10,400 a year in leg pay that Cape Air pilots don't get paid to do the same job in the same equipment. The difference between the 12.80 a hour and the 15.00 adds up to a difference of 13,312 dollars a year more is base pay if you work 40 duty hours a week. This means that all and all Island Air pays $23,712 more than Cape Air a year (almost double that of a Cape Air Pilot) to do the same job in the same equipment. This begs the questions, if Island Air can afford to pay their pilots a livable wage, why can't Cape Air? I wonder where all that money is going? Its not to equipment, because Island Air flys Garmin 430 equiped aircraft while Cape Air's planes are not even GPS equipped.

The primary difference when it comes to HR is that Cape Air is much easier to get hired at. In fact, it is not unheard of lately for pilots to leave Cape Air and go to work for Island Air. This is true even for senior Cape Air Pilots.

 

[dickburns]

Any new captain at cape air with less than 100 hours pic in the plane has to have an sic, think its ops specs, I had a friend start there last month in their fo program. Also look at airnet, they have an sic program, guys are logging away hours right seat in light twins and caravans. I'm so sick of people arguing about how its not legal or not right. I logged over 150 hours right seat in a tbm-700 a few years ago, and around 100 hours right seat in a 421 was all several years ago but now have an atp rating, the examiner picked through my log book, asked how it was to fly those planes and never had any other questions. Time is time, youre sitting up there, log it and stop worrying about whats going to be said, most likely nothing.

 

[Goose Egg]

With that said, I don't understand why anyone would be interested in Cape Air when places with 1 year upgrades (on jets and t-props) are hiring with much lower mins, better pay, in places with much lower cost of living, unless your a local to one of their bases.

Different philosophies of life, I guess. For someone who is bent on getting to the majors, I guess it doesn't make much sense. For someone looking to embed themselves in a regional's seniority list, it probably doesn't make much sense either. For a kid from the West who used to tape "Wings" just for the opening and closing credits and now lives in the BOS area, it's an awesome opportunity that I may not ever be in the position to take advantage of again. Life is about the journey.

Flying single pilot IFR does very little to prepare you for working in a crew environment, and flying a 402 is much different than flying heavier, more complex equipment. Having 1000 hours PIC 135 piston does nothing for you, but having 1000 hours turbine 135 or 121 opens up all the doors.

Yet somehow Cape Air guys keep getting 'bigger and better' jobs and moving on. It's a mystery.

Just like everyone else, Cape Air is going to have a very difficult time finding and retaining pilots as the pilot shortage continues to grow. The pay is going to have to go up if Cape Air want to continue to attract pilots.

Fine. More for me.

I know of one Cape Air pilot that was turned down at a fractional because of the lack of crew experience and another that washed out of training at a regional because the crew environment was foreign to him.

For that one guy at the frac, there were probably five to ten other guys that were offered a position. And isn't the crew environment foreign to almost everyone in a newhire regional class? For some reason I don't see them being super-picky about that--I'm not seeing where a 500 hour CFI has significant crew experience either. It was more likely that it was just that guy, not single pilot 135 guys on the whole. (Besides, we all know, or at least we all should know that CRM concepts apply to single pilot ops as well. Use of all available resources? Sound familiar?)

North Based Cape Air Pilot
35 hour per week guarantee @ $12.80 per duty hour
12.80 times 35/hrs= $448 a week
$448 x 52 weeks in a year= $23296

Except a CA is going to go waaaayyy over 35 hours, especially with this so-called shortage.

In any case, I'm a firm believer in doing what is right for one's personal situation, not what the masses or culture-at-large dictate. There are as many right choices as there are people. Cape Air is horrible for some people, and for others, there's nothing better.

-Goose

 

[zasca]

sic needed when the autopilot is busted in IFR. Also heard that some guys transitioning back from Puerto Rico like to use sic's after flying severe clear all winter. But that's from an unreliable source...