CAP Pilot

[flyf15]

Hey guys, I'm curious if any of you know about being a pilot with the Civil Air Patrol. If so, I have some questions...

1) Whats the process to becoming one?
2) What are the commitments, including non-flying?
3) What exactly do CAP pilots do? And how often?

I live in north Denver, so it'd be one of the squadrons in that area. I'm mostly looking for something to get some valuable flight time and stay involved in flying while finishing up school and CAP seems like a possibility.

 

[aucfi]

Cap

I joined after being told of several opportunities to build time. You can build time by flying cadets on O-Rides or conduct various missions.



If I remember correctly the squad here rented their C-182 for $28 an hour + fuel and the C-172 for $25 an hour + fuel and instructors cannot charge for their services.



CAP is a great way to build time, see the inside workings of a SAR operation and meet some great people. I highly recommend it.



Some sites:
http://www.cap.gov/

http://www.cap.gov/quickinfo/pilot.html

 

[User546]

If I remember correctly the squad here rented their C-182 for $28 an hour + fuel and the C-172 for $25 an hour + fuel and instructors cannot charge for their services.

How long ago was this?? I also second that its a very worthwhile organization to join. Known several pilot buddies that have joined over the years and they do a lot of good for themselves, and the community.

And you should support them also, because they just might be the people out looking for you if you ever find yourself having to make an emergency landing off-field someday!

 

[garf12]

Is it realy hardcore military structured? Or pretty laid back? I dont really know much about it but reading it sounds as though it could be intresting. How often do you get opertunities to do missions? The counter drug stuff kinda sounds cool. Im sure all this varies widley from local to local.

 

[User546]

All I can speak of the local chapter in Phoenix, Arizona.

There was essentially two groups: the youngin's / teenagers, and the adults.

The youth were the only ones that wore the uniforms, did the cadence marching, boot camp, etc.

The adults, which consisted mostly of the pilots were much more casual and laid back. Structured overall, but loosely at that. If you were a pilot in the orginzation you had the duties of giving flight lessons to those who were interested, and also participating in any special issions that might come up (Search & Rescue, Border Patrol, etc.)

However, there were so many pilots that were there that you rarely would get the oppurtunity to get to fly these special missions. Picture 1 airplane, and 10 pilots and you'll see where I'm going with that. Time building it probably isn't.

But I strongly support it and would defintely recommend it to anyone who's interested - doesn't cost anything to join, and is a worthwhile organization!

 

[Typhoon1244]

Is it realy hardcore military structured? Or pretty laid back?

Depends on the unit, but most of the ones I saw (in East Tennessee) were pretty laid back. I don't think anyone (besides the cadets) knew how to salute.

 

[typhoonpilot]

flyf15:

This info is a little dated since I haven't been active in the CAP since about 1993. Hopefully there are some guys who are more current who can add to what I say.

The process to becoming a CAP pilot is to first join a squadron. Pick a squadron with a corporate airplane. This is very important, not all squadrons have an airplane. If you find a squadron with more than one then that is even better.

You'll have to attend squadron meetings once per week and go through a couple of one day or weekend courses to learn about CAP and advance in grade. Then you can get an aircraft check out in the squadron aircraft. This is known as a Form 5 checkride. It really isn't much different than one you would get from an FBO. At this point you are still paying to fly the aircraft, although at much lower rates than the FBO.

To become a mission pilot will take additional training. Usually around 5 to 10 hours of practice in finding and then flying grids, search techniques, elt search methods, mountain flying, and finally another checkride. Now you are able to participate in Air Force authorized missions.

The CAP performs the majority of U.S. domestic search and rescue on behalf of the Air Force. When an ELT goes off or an aircraft is reported missing it is the Air Force who will authorize a mission. What that means is that they will pay for all the flying CAP performs on their behalf. If you are flying a corporate aircraft then it is just a matter of proper record keeping and reporting for the squadron to be re-imbursed.

The CAP also performs some other miscellaneous flying for State and Federal agencies. In California we did some work for the State Office of Emergency Services and critical organ transport. In coastal and lake areas some squadrons perform sundown patrols to look for stranded boats. There are missions for Federal anti-drug organizations and probably some work for Homeland Security. You can also do orientation rides for CAP cadets.

To do a lot of mission flying you have to be available at the drop of a hat and at odd hours because ELTs go off at the oddest hours and airplanes don't just disappear on weekends. Some of the other flying tends to be scheduled though so there are opportunities for weekend flying that you can plan for.

CAP tends to be a little bureaucratic and cliqueish so you'll have to have some patience to get through the process of becoming a pilot with them. You'll also have to fit in with the generally older crowd of people who do most of the flying. There are some really good people in CAP, but there also some real jerks. Again, the key is to find the right squadron. That will make all the difference in the world. Go attend the weekly meetings of a couple of different squadrons and get a feel for which one might be a better fit for you and what you want to do. It may mean that you need to drive further to find the squadron that you'll fit into best, but that will be time well spent.


Typhoonpilot

 

[Kawasumi_Kichou]

What Typhoonpilot said. I was in the CAP (Nevada and California wings) for 31 years and retired in 1999. It is possible to do quite a bit of reduced-cost flying with them, what with all of the training requirements and missions they have these days. Getting to do actual SAR or CN or Customs missions may be difficult at first (except on really big missions) until you can get on a couple of Mission Coordinators' short lists. Obviously these guys will call their known quantities first, but there may still be opportunities for newer guys to fly, especially during weekdays when it's more difficult to find available crews.

Definitely need to sit in with a couple of squadrons to see how they operate. They all have different personalities and vibes; most are pretty easy going. You do have to wear proper flight clothing (USAF flightsuit or CAP jumpsuit) during actual missions and USAF graded SAR exercises. Any money you spend for CAP activties (like buying flight clothing) that isn't reimbursed can generally be taken as an income tax deduction.

 

[bobbysamd]

Cap

I had some of my best aviation experiences as a Civil Air Patrol member. I received training in CAP that served me for years as a professional aviator and elsewhere, along with meeting some very fine people.

You first must join a CAP squadron. To fly, you must take an initial Form 5 checkride, which is really nothing more than the same type of thorough flight that you would take for a flight review. You also must take a Form 5 in each aircraft you will fly for your unit. A CAP unit check pilot gives Form 5s. Chances are, he/she will sign off a flight review for you and sign a WINGS card for you as well. You also have to take a Form 5 to qualify as a mission pilot.

Flying opportunities include proficency flying at a reduced per-hour rental rate, mission flying and cadet orientation flying. You can work on ratings in CAP aircraft, but your instructor must be a CAP member and cannot charge. When I belonged to Oklahoma Wing CAP, a unique flying opportunity for instructors and cadets was the Cadet Flight Encampment. Selected cadets were given ten hours of flight instruction in the Wing's 172s over a week's time leading to solo. I participated in the Flight Encampment two years; the first as an instructor and the second as Project Officer. The first year was a great learning experience for me because I was a brand new CFI-A that year. I soloed my first three students during that week and really honed my presentation during that time.

I second the comments about visiting a couple of squadrons. The quality of your CAP experience will depend greatly on your unit. Some squadrons are run better than others, and such a unit would be the one you want to join. Also, as written above, many squadrons, and wings, are very political. Try to avoid those units.

Finally, CAP has a mission and you will be counted on to contribute. It is not just a cut-rate flying club. If you put forth the effort, you will be rewarded in many ways besides flight time.

 

[Goose Egg]

Here's a CAP question for y'all: What if you can't make it to some meetings or weekend events? I personally have to work some weekends, have some church responsibilities, and will be starting a graduate program soon that will occupy some of my weeknights.

-Goose

 

[mayday1]

anyone have any insights to Chicago based CAP squadrons? I believe there is one based at PWK..?

 

[hindsight2020]

My experience has been that the flying side is limited, with the exception to the reduced-rate rental thing. I was active on and off since 1997 and logged a gran total of 1 flight. Most of my duties were teaching kids how to march (in my junior member days) and later as a senior member at a squadron in Atlanta, basically teaching kids about aerodynamics and reciprocating engines (once I finished my all so qualifying degree in aerospace engineering haha).

I concur with the notion that it depends on the squadron. It will all depend on the fleet they have, there are squadrons that are exclusively senior members and a purely flying squadron, then there are those which focus on the youth program side of things. As far as time-building, I don't think there's much for that, hell just to schedule that one flight in a 172 took days, and on those squadrons that are heavy on the flying you got 20 other dudes like you trying to get in the game and nobody is getting hours worth rivaling a more traditional time-building method. That was my experience anyways. Good program to fill your "volunteer" box on the c.v., not military at all, the thing is pretty laid back, basically shoot the sh3t for a couple of hours a week and show the kiddies slides of an F-18 and sh3t. But not much flying...

 

[DaveJ]

www.cap.gov

Go to the CAP website and click "Find units near me" on the Join menu. You can get a list by city and/or state.

 

[WizardPilot]

Some squadrons do no do SAR's. Most of the flying that I've seen has been through O flights. I was a cadet in Utah, and some of the pilots/senior members were pretty discouraging when I asked them about flying with CAP. Other than that I have nothing else bad to say. It is a great orginization. It has helped me get to where I am in college and in my aviation knowledge. Just one thing, make sure 100% that the sq. that you get into has an airplane, or your feet are gonna be chained to the ground for the most part.

www.capnhq.mil or . org, I don't remember which one it is, but that is their website. They will have lots of info there.

 

[DaveJ]

you can get some hours

I got a lot of time towing gliders and giving glider O rides in SC wing. As a check pilot and mission pilot in GA wing, I fly the wing's aircraft about as much (or more) than I fly my own aircraft. If you're willing to devote some time to the mission training or cadet orientation, you can get almost as much flying as you want. Besides flying the CAP cadets, CAP also flys orientation rides for AF ROTC cadets.

It's always a blast giving a kid his first airplane ride. I had one cadet that was extremely nervous about his first ride and actually kept his eyes closed for the takeoff. After we got off the ground, however, he opened his eyes, looked around and loved it. He didn't stop talking the rest of the trip and was telling his buds what a great experience he had once he got back on the ground.

 

[d328pilot]

CAP is a great way to get some flying time. As a cadet, i did all of my flight training with CAP. I fly a few times a month now doing AFROTC orientation flights. Lots of good other things about CAP too. I went to Israel as a cadet for the International Air Cadet Exchange Program. Seniors are able to go too as escorts. Units really do vary a lot. Some are very well organized and others can barely figure out what is going on. All in all, a great organization.

 

[TR4A]

I was an Air Force Reservist working with the CAP for 12 years in FL, TX , and WA. If you wait for Air Force funded exercises to get training and check-rides it will take forever. If you are willing to spend a few bucks to rent the airplane and get with a CAP IP you can get checked a lot faster. The pilots that were available at odd hours and weekdays did most of the ELT searches. O-Rides were another source of flight time.

 

[Kawasumi_Kichou]

Cadet stuff is where I spent the vast majority of my time. Gave O-rides and transported cadets to advisory council meetings, wing conferences, SARs, and practice SARs. Also taught a lot of aerospace and leadership classes, plus put in duty as a tactical officer and van/bus driver at summer encampments and other cadet events. Highlights for me were a cadet solo flight scholarship in 1974, and IACE, to Spain 1975 as a cadet, and Japan in 1995 as an escort.

On the senior (adult) side my most fun times were at the various schools the CAP offers, especially the Pacific Region Staff College at March AFB in 1983, and National Staff College at the Air University, Maxwell AFB in 1993.

 

[flyf15]

I really appreciate all the info so far guys, I'm going to visit a couple of the sqadrons around here. Two further questions:

1) Are you required to do all of these activities? I definately am interested but I have a lot of school commitments that I can't miss, so I can't always be there.

2) What are the non-flying duties that are required of the pilot? Trying to get an idea of what I'm getting myself into...

 

[cynic]

Ok, I'll be the one to tell you.

If you'd like to join an organization run by blowhard a$$holes that use a captive audience to tell long DULL stories over and over then join.

If you'd like to wash the airplane and drill with 12 year olds in exchange for never flying the airplane without the blowhard know it all a$$hole then join.

Finally, I (I dare say we) will all make fun of you as you get in a 172 with a jump suit on and a helmet under your arm.

Remember the safety patrol in elementary school?
Let me refresh your memory:
http://home.att.net/~anitahogue/safety.jpg

Those guys are running the CAP now.

But if you insist on joining could you at least direct deposit your lunch money into my checking account; its easier for us both.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Hey Cynic, you're living up to your name. It actually took a lot longer for someone to post what you have than I thought it would.

CAP isn't for everybody and it is obviously not for you. You probably had experience with one of the squadrons that I would recommend staying away from. Some squadrons are like that which is why it is very important to find one that you can fit into.

flyf15:

You are not required to be at all the meetings. That said, if you want to fit in and be a team member than you do have to contribute to the organization. Usually you will take a squadron position to help out. That should be something you are interested in. There are usually communications officer, logistics officer, maintenance officer, operations officer, and various other openings.



Typhoonpilot

 

[garf12]

whats the cut off age from cadets to seniors?

 

[typhoonpilot]

It is 18. Prior to age 18 you can join as a cadet, after that you join as a senior. You may continue as a cadet until age 21 if you joined prior to age 18. Somebody tell me if I'm wrong on that, but that is how I remember it.

As a cadet you can not fly missions, you can fly the airplane for ratings or proficiency. You can even become a Form 5 check pilot.

TP

 

[Art Vandalay]

Ok, I'll be the one to tell you.

If you'd like to join an organization run by blowhard a$$holes that use a captive audience to tell long DULL stories over and over then join.

If you'd like to wash the airplane and drill with 12 year olds in exchange for never flying the airplane without the blowhard know it all a$$hole then join.

Finally, I (I dare say we) will all make fun of you as you get in a 172 with a jump suit on and a helmet under your arm.

Remember the safety patrol in elementary school?
Let me refresh your memory:
http://home.att.net/~anitahogue/safety.jpg

Those guys are running the CAP now.

But if you insist on joining could you at least direct deposit your lunch money into my checking account; its easier for us both.

Prior to reading this entire thread, I would have said the same thing. I always thought it was funny as he!! seeing these old fat guys try and squeeze into a 172 with their flight suits on. Again, that was before reading this thread.

Now, it actually seems the CAP is worthwhile. Give it a try!


Art V.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I'll bet cynic was sexually abused by his squad leader...

 

[Kawasumi_Kichou]

It is as typhoonpilot says--18 to 21 are overlap years for cadet to senior. I stayed in the cadet ranks until 21 (I was slow).

Yeah, some squadrons (or groups, or wings ) can be really bad. There are some people in the CAP who are there only to play soldier and lord over their fiefdoms. They make things tough for the good guys. I admit that's what I finally got tired of after 31 years. That's why it's so necessary to shop around for a unit one can fit in with.

Yes you will wear a nomex flightsuit (if you meet USAF height/weight/grooming standards) or CAP jumpsuit (for the fat/bearded guys) when you fly, even in a C-172. It's a USAF requirement. If you think that's silly or you don't like it, you don't have to fly.

The only real operational requirement if you want to fly is to pass your initial and recurrent checkrides and stay proficient. On the PME side everyone must go through "Level 1" training which covers the basics about the organization, regulations, insurance, liabilties, and cadet protection. Also, most people pick a technical specialty track that they're interested in and earn at least a technician rating in it, but that is voluntary.

All training after Level 1 is voluntary. But if you really get into it, there's various weekend technical, management, and leadership schools available at Levels 2 thru 5, including USAF ECI and residence courses. If you aspire to a command or staff slot above the squadron level you will go through some or all of those additional levels of training.

I went through the whole thing, completing National Staff College and Level 5. Held master ratings in cadet program management and communications, and a technician rating in aerospace education, along with a command pilot rating and a grade of CAP LTC. Highest staff jobs I held were deputy commander for cadets at the squadron level, IG at the group level, and air operations officer during SAR missions. I had a blast.