Can you log PIC time when receiving IFR training??

[MOONBEAM]

This has probably been covered before, but I am a little unclear on the subject.
I worked for a Part 135 operation that had a PFT SIC program. The SIC takes an official CFR 135 SIC checkride to act as SIC on scheduled 135 runs (light multi-engine piston airplane).
I beleive is is proper for an SIC to log PIC when they are the sole minipulator on dead head part 91 flights, but I flew with SIC's that logged PIC whenever they where the sole minipulator of the controls regardless of the type of flight. Is that proper? How can you act as PIC of a 135 flight when you have not taken a 135 PIC checkride? It sort of irritated me when I found out that my SIC was putting multi-engine PIC time in his logbook when he was not qualified to act as PIC on a 135 flight. What are your thoughts? Thanks.

 

[avbug]

Good grief, moonbeam. After the long post before, you still didn't catch the difference between logging PIC, and acting as PIC?

Logging PIC time has nothing to do with acting as PIC, period.

Under 14 CFR 61.51(e)(1)(i), one who is rated in an aircraft and holds at least a sport pilot certificate may log PIC as sole manipulator of the controls. This does not make him or her the pilot in command.

A SIC who is rated in the ariplane and is sole manipulator of the controls, may log PIC time as sole manipulator. He or she may not act as PIC, if not qualified to do so by the regulations under which the flight is operated, but he or she may certainly log the time as PIC.

A more important question is how this time will be viewed later on. Setting aside the fact that anybody working for a PFT organization is both a whore and an idiot (and will be viewed accordingly), logging PIC when you are not the PIC can make you look bad as well. Yes, it's legal. However, two issues arise when future employers consider that time.

The first is that most employers want to see PIC time reflecting the time you were really the PIC. If you were a SIC logging PIC time, this has the appearance of impropriety. In many cases, the employers will stipulate that they only consider PIC time that was gained when the pilot was the ACTING PIC...sole manipulator time under 135 doesn't count for their purposes.

14 CFR 135.109 dicates that the certificate holder shall assign a PIC and SIC, and the PIC shall remain so throughout the flight, as follows:

§ 135.109 Pilot in command or second in command: Designation required.

(a) Each certificate holder shall designate a -

(1) Pilot in command for each flight; and

(2) Second in command for each flight requiring two pilots.

(b) The pilot in command, as designated by the certificate holder, shall remain the pilot in command at all times during that flight.

Yes, legally the time may be logged as PIC. However, one who does so as SIC and then uses that experience to present for employment may have a rude awakening...as if having bought one's job wasn't enough of a black mark on one's record to begin with.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Yes, if you are rated in the cat/class of aircraft.

 

[mullet]

It doesn't mention anything about weather conditions or flight rules...only if that person is rated in that aircraft.

-'duff

Be sure and argue your point if this is brought up at your next interview. Log it, dont log it, I could care less. Is an extra 5-20 hours PIC really worth it?