Can this be right?!? Am I flying illegally now?

[Flying Illini]

I just recieved my new license from the FAA as I was typed when I went to school. Here is my question/problem:

On my temp license, section IX (exercise the privelages of) reads: Commercial Pilot (which I am).
On my new license, section IX reads: Airline Transport Pilot (which I am not)

On my temp, section XII (Ratings) reads:
Commercial Privelages
Airplane Single and MultiEngine Land
Instrument Airplane
DA-10
On my new license, section XII reads:
Airline Transport Pilot
Airplane MultiEngine Land
DA-10
Commercial Privelages
Airplane Single Engine Land

I'm confused. I think there are two problems with this new license, 1, I'm not an ATP but that's what it says and 2, it makes no mention of "Instrument Airplane" anywhere on the license.

So, am I flying illegally? I have a trip tomorrow morning (I recieved this in the mail today). I plan on keeping my temp with me but should I take my new license as well?

JD

 

[NuGuy]

Hi JD,

Errr, sounds like an FAA error. They probably slipped up because %98 (a guess) of all type ratings involve an issuance or re-issuance of an ATP grade certificate.

Better call your FSDO, DE or POI ASAP. Take both tickets with you and remember what the FARS say about ratings issued in error.

Nu

 

[Tooslow]

1, In order to have an ATP, must have an Instrument Rating!

 

[Illini Pilot]

obviously they got the ATP wrong, but ATP requires a commercial and instrument rating, so they probably don't print instrument airplane or whatever on ATP certificates. You can try calling them right now before they close...you can get an immediate email temporary authorization through the FAA website, so they could probably just go in and change it today, then you can at least get a temp. authorization to fly. thats what i did when my licenses and medical were stolen last week

 

[NotFurloughed]

Instrument

The Instrument Airplane verbiage is removed with the issuance of an ATP because it is a prerequisite for the ATP rating....

As far as an answer to your first question, I agrree that someone (DE, FAA, etc.) made an error...

You must have made quite an imression when you did your type training...

 

[Flying Illini]

Looks like I shouldn't have ran those errands...I didn't realize that they would close at 4 and not 5. Looks like a call to the CP for suggestions.

remember what the FARS say about ratings issued in error.

I'm looking right now, but I'm not finding it...any hints as to location?

 

[minty fresh]

what's the big deal? just use the temp that you have in hand

 

[350DRIVER]

Just use your temp for tom. It is good for 120 days and as long as you are within that time frame then don't worry about it until you return from your trip. I doubt the FAA is going to question "when'' you actually received your new ticket. I wouldn't worry about it right now, a few more days isn't going to hurt anyone..

If it were me and I was within the 120 days then I would just "pretend" that I didn't get the new ticket yet and would just fly the trip with the temp. in hand.


3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

what's the big deal? just use the temp that you have in hand

my exact thoughts... simple solution

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[Flying Illini]

what's the big deal? just use the temp that you have in hand

FAR 61.17
Temporary certificate.

(a) A temporary pilot, flight instructor, or ground instructor certificate or rating is issued for up to 120 days, at which time a permanent certificate will be issued to a person whom the Administrator finds qualified under this part.
(b) A temporary pilot, flight instructor, or ground instructor certificate or rating expires:
(1) On the expiration date shown on the certificate;
(2) Upon receipt of the permanent certificate; or
(3) Upon receipt of a notice that the certificate or rating sought is denied or revoked.

It may be the wrong permanent certificate but the FAA doesn't know that (yet). Tomorrows flight could be just like all the others where I don't even pull my license out of my wallet...OR it could be the one time I get ramp checked or have something else happen.

 

[Flying Illini]

If it were me and I was within the 120 days then I would just "pretend" that I didn't get the new ticket yet and would just fly the trip with the temp. in hand.

3 5 0

I guess we'd better delete this thread then, huh?!

 

[350DRIVER]

(2) Upon receipt of the permanent certificate; or

Ok... But, The FAA does not yet know that you have gotten the "permanent certificate" yet do they?.


do as you wish

3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

I guess we'd better delete this thread then, huh?!

Ahaa... that would work!!

re-post it tom. when you get home from your trip and we can pretend this day never happened- lol

have a safe trip tom

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[Neal]

My guess is that it isn't a mistake at all. The ATP ride is exactly the same as your type ride....so alot of guys who give the type ride to guys without their ATP just issue both rides at the same time. I know alot of people that have done it this way and my guess is that is what they did for you.

If you want to make sure...just call whoever did your type ride and ask them about it....that might save yourself some time.

mark

 

[NotFurloughed]

Mark...

According to hid flight time...if it is accurate...he doesn't meet the minimums for the certificate...

 

[banned username 2]

My guess is that it isn't a mistake at all. The ATP ride is exactly the same as your type ride....so alot of guys who give the type ride to guys without their ATP just issue both rides at the same time. I know alot of people that have done it this way and my guess is that is what they did for you.

If you want to make sure...just call whoever did your type ride and ask them about it....that might save yourself some time.

mark

He would have also had to present ATP Written Test results to the examiner...

I think this was a "Type-O"... LOL... I kill myself!!! Remember to tip your waiters and waitresses!!!

 

[bobbysamd]

Bogus ATP

Sorry, but the FAA botched it. With 910 hours you are not eligible for the ATP. You need to go to FSDO forthwith and have it straighten it out.

There will be good news eventually, though. When you become eligible to take the ATP and pass it, your type rating will transfer over with ATP privileges. There is no such thing as "commercial privileges" for a type rating, assuming, of course, that it was not limited to VFR.

 

[NotFurloughed]

I don't think the type transfers to the ATP...it will be listed by the faa as C/DA10 meaning commercial privelages for the type...

I could be wrong however, but I remember hearing this from an examiner....

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Well, here's another way to look at it, did you actually recieve the permanent certificate?

There are two cases: 1) the plastic certificate is the new one and you need to fly on it or 2) the plastic certificate is invalid, and thus the temp is not supersceded because you never recieved the permanent.

I am guessing that situation 2 is the case but I would carry both and if you get ramp checked show the temp. Doubtful they will strip search you for the permanent one when you flash the temp.

 

[NotFurloughed]

Also,

If he doesn't poses an ATP and has a type, then what privelages is the type exercised under if not commercial?

check this faa link...

http://registry.faa.gov/amquery.asp

concerning type privelages and certificates...

 

[Lead Sled]

So, am I flying illegally? I have a trip tomorrow morning (I recieved this in the mail today). I plan on keeping my temp with me but should I take my new license as well?

You need to get this sorted out before you fly. It was obviously issued in error. It should be no big deal however. Simply go to your friendly local FSDO and they ought to be able to resolve it on the spot and issue yet another temporary certificate. FWIW, get your ATP written passed as soon as you are eligible. Theat way, when you go back for recurrent you can simply take the ride for the ATP/ATP type. It's the essentially the exact same ride.

'Sled

 

[Flying Illini]

Show time isn't until 10am tomorrow (woohoo!!!) so I am going to go in early and make a phone call to the friendly FSDO and get things sorted out. They should be able to fax me a copy or just tell me to continue to operate on the temp that I have (which will probably be the case). I appreciate the input from all as I didn't want to shoot myself in the foot by flying illegally.
Yeah, I wish I had the times for the ATP now but I don't (only 990 TT). I'll wait until that day comes. Either way, I've been flying to ATP standards during my entire time at this company, otherwise they wouldn't be letting my fly the equipment that I do. I guess all that's left now is a written test and flight time.

Thanks again

 

[Sunnfun]

make a phone call to the friendly FSDO

I would approach the Examiner who issued your 8710 to OK City first. It gives him an opportunity to either fix his mistake or use the proper channels with OK city to get this fixed; they will fax you a new temp within minutes if you can't use your "original" temp certificate. I'm sure he'll be appreciative...

Involving the FSDO doesn't really do anything other than make the examiner look bad (IF it was his mistake). All certificate issues are between the examiner (who produces the paperwork) and the Airmen Certification Branch in OK City (who processes it). The FSDO has nothing to do with it.

If you would get ramped, just show them your temp if it's still within the 120 days. Mail's slow these days...

 

[some_dude]

As others have said, obviously this is a mistake. If you did not present an ATP written test result, along with the appropriate application for certificate or rating (although FSI or whoever could have mistakenly filled it out for an ATP), you should not get an ATP.

My opinion, for whatever it's worth (nothing!), is that you should go ahead and take the trip and when you get back, go to the FSDO and get this cleared up. As long as you are only exercising the privileges you are entitled to (commercial/instrument, DA-10 type rating), I would think it would be hard to fault you.

It is true that when you get an ATP, any type ratings you have automatically move up to the ATP level. This has not always been the case-- I originally got my CE-500 type rating on my commercial, and when I got my ATP it didn't get promoted. About nine years later, when I got my DA-10 type rating, the CE-500 rating got automatically moved up to the ATP as well.

Now if only I could get rid of that "Private Privileges - Airplane Single Engine Sea" on my license!