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Can it get any worse at NWA?

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redflyer65

redflyer65

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Posts
4,456
Nice front page article on the Money section of USA Today regarding the NWA management money grab. How can Gropper even sign off on such a ludicrous "retention" package?

These guys are actually going to reward themselves for steering Northwest into bankruptcy. At least Delta had the forsight to forgo the big bankruptcy exit bonus. Come on Steenland, let's see what your made of....
 
True, but that's the industry.

Pilots have been screwing each other for years and the only winners have been management.

My guess, is as usual, the employees there will be pissed off for a while and then move on. Management has pilots pegged and knows they wont really do anything that will make a difference.

The beat goes on.
 
What really amazes me is how management will try to pull these things with the people that actually run the company and deal with the paying passengers everyday. Just watch as the pilots taxi at a slow crawl to get their pay back. Or the gate agents and FA's that act indifferent to any and all passengers. Do these guys even think about these items? It appears not.

Welcome to Northwest, were not happy until your unhappy!
 
Arpey and his gang at AA got $170 million. If the rule of inverse competence vs compensation holds true, NW execs should get twice that.
 
Yes...

Sure it could be worse.


You could be a 1988 US Airways hire. (or ANY USAirways pilot for that matter.)

You could have been a TWA pilot.
You could have been a rEAL pilot.
You could have been a PAA pilot.
Or a Braniff I/II pilot.



I'm just glad management and the CEOs are taking care of themselves.
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
Be glad you aren't at USAIRways... those guys are getting a crap sandwhich...
Click to expand...

A crap sandwich? Are you for real? Those guys were headed for the unemployment line (just like TWA pilots)... through no personal failing of their own... nevertheless, that's what the future had in store for them. Instead of being grateful for continued aviation employment (the highly sought after mid-50's, burned out airline pilot) these guys are coming up with all sorts of creative rationale for integrating themselves into the acquiring company's existing seniority list. Looks like it's just General Lee and me seeing things the same way.

BBB
 
A little off topic, but USAir has never had a successful merger, EVER. So why do you think it would happen now? I'm just sorry the America West guys got shoved together with them. This isn't a slam on the USAir pilot, but how poorly management has run that airline, for years! Instead of running the airline, management just figured they could merger their way out of trouble. It doesn't work unless the fundamentals underneath are solid.

Is anyone suprised that Steenland is going for the money grab after all the concessions?
 
redflyer65 said:
What really amazes me is how management will try to pull these things with the people that actually run the company and deal with the paying passengers everyday. Just watch as the pilots taxi at a slow crawl to get their pay back. Or the gate agents and FA's that act indifferent to any and all passengers. Do these guys even think about these items? It appears not.

Welcome to Northwest, were not happy until your unhappy!
Click to expand...

Isn't that already the standard at NWA?
 
Piedmont was one of the best run airlines in US history. The passengers absolutely loved them. I was one of those by the way (Granted that was still under regulation). USAir shredded that with the merger. What's your take on that?

Yes the FA's have already been pissed off. I guess it will be business as usual. That hatred goes way back to the 90's when management did the same thing to them. Asked for and received big concessions then turned around about 2 weeks later and took huge bonuses. History just repeating itself I guess.
 
I agree. The merger was good for U.S. Air, but not for Piedmont. So from a Piedmont labor standpoint you are correct (although many of them got a pay raise). Three of my family members worked there and all but one got laid off. Short term pay raise for a long term pain in the a**.
 
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redflyer65 said:
Instead of running the airline, management just figured they could merger their way out of trouble.
Click to expand...



Had to laugh at your statement...
Isn't that exactly what Mr. Doogie Parker has done for the past six months?

And for all you AWA guys who CONTINUE to believe YOU bought and saved USAirways....
Just remember it wasn't AWA money, your money or Parker's money.

It was a deal put together by AWA mgt and AAA mgt with outside investor's money. There was and is a LOT of VALUE of the USAirway's network.

Quit believing the lie that your airline and the individual pilots of AWA saved USAirways from the toilet. Someone would have stepped up to create a deal. It just happened to be AWA.

And if Parker had been more concerned with running an airline the past six months instead of boozing and trying to buy DAL, USAirways could be in a much better morale and operational position today.
 
redflyer65 said:
Just watch as the pilots taxi at a slow crawl to get their pay back.
Click to expand...

I've been wondering about that this week.

Got stuck in ATL behind a NWA DC-9 that was absolutely CRAWLING...

Just to show you how slow he was going, by the time he reached the end of 26L for departure, there was NO ONE in front of him for takeoff, and 11 of us right on his tail.

The guy takes off, they put an RJ in front of us for spacing (RJ going a different direction), then we take off and do normal profile. About 10 minutes into the climb, they slow us to 250 kts... out of 21,0... the same speed the DC-9 is going. WTF? I've jumpseated on NWA -9's for YEARS, that's NOT a normal profile.

Get above the guy, get up to PHL, we're waiting to push and a NWA Airbus comes CRAWLING across the ramp that we have to wait for. Even PCL is p.o.'d at the guy 'cause THEY can't push and there's another RJ trying to park behind him.

Ramp tower even said, "When the Northwest snail moves out of the way, you're cleared to push..."

Never seen anyone go so slow... Evidently the unofficial slowdown has begun.
 
We get paid by the hour. Most of us are flying "BOB"..Block Or Better.

If our block is less than the published segment time on that leg, the "underfly" reduces our "overfly" on other segments on a minute for minute basis.

So there's that.....and about 26.6 million other reasons for it.

The paycuts suck enough....I'm not going to increase them by giving up the 5 or so extra pay hours monthly from overfly above block on a leg by leg cumulative basis that we had under the pre-BK deal.
 
DTW320 said:
If our block is less than the published segment time on that leg, the "underfly" reduces our "overfly" on other segments on a minute for minute basis.
Click to expand...

Wow. Every time I read a NWA thread there comes another little nugget that jumps out at me about what you guys were asked to give up.

Did you get any "good" deals in your contract?

Gup

p.s. Lear. Don't berate a fellow pilot that is flying his aircraft in the safest manner he can. He might have been taxiing slowly to give the FA's extra time to perform their duties. Maybe he climbed slowly to minimize the bumps. Maybe the PHL crew had a problem with the towbar and needed to taxi slowly to check things out. Never underestimate a pissed off employee. Safey first!
 
Did you get any "good" deals in your contract?
Click to expand...

Bout the only thing I can think of is the unsecured claim we got. We've sold roughly half of it for around 88 cents on the dollar(at TA time we guessed it would be worth about 10 c/dollar) and are hopefully selling the rest in the next few days. It's working out to around $150k each average. Pension, albeit frozen, remains unless it gets terminated in a future BK. Some profit sharing. Uhhh....that's about it.
 
DTW320 said:
Bout the only thing I can think of is the unsecured claim we got. We've sold roughly half of it for around 88 cents on the dollar(at TA time we guessed it would be worth about 10 c/dollar) and are hopefully selling the rest in the next few days. It's working out to around $150k each average. Pension, albeit frozen, remains unless it gets terminated in a future BK. Some profit sharing. Uhhh....that's about it.
Click to expand...


...yeah, we got screwed. But we get to try it again in 2011,......or is it 20 12,..........ugh!
 
Lear70 said:
Evidently the unofficial slowdown has begun.
Click to expand...

That would be nice. Done nothing but role over so far--not only for management, but for the senior pilots.

Oh, and somewhat asked what good was in this contract?
Old guys kept their pension (60% FAE), plus excess benefits, plus 5% on top, plus they get to keep getting that 5% as they are very strongly dragging feet on starting the targetting--even threatening law suits to keep from losing it to junior pilots who have no pension!!! Plus the old guys got the lions share of the unsecured claims even though they won't fly under this POS agreement, while the pilots recalled in 2007 receive ZERO credit for their time flying for $29/hour in 2007. So to answer your question, ask a guy who's been around 25 years--they made out great!!!

Schwanker
 
Heck, I know how to fix this straight away. Deny the jumpseats to Virgin America and Skybus pilots.
 
Schwanker,

Don't know what airplane you are on but it is not the "OLD GUYS" it is a handful of "NINJA CAPTs" that are causing all the trouble. These are the guys that due to the Robert's award were protected via fences from the more senior greenbook guys. The old red/green guys don't give a ******************** because even with a flat rate for everyone it will not matter to them. However it is the late 40 early 50 year old mostly former redbook who has been flying way out of seniority due to their "career expectations" are not happy with the fact they were wide body capts in their early to mid 40s but enough isn't enough. Just pure greed. We saved their pension and now they want to steal ours.
 
Well put Schwanker. I think you summed up everything very nicely. The senior guys voted it in and everyone else has to deal with it.
 
DTW320 said:
Bout the only thing I can think of is the unsecured claim we got. We've sold roughly half of it for around 88 cents on the dollar and are hopefully selling the rest in the next few days. It's working out to around $150k each average.
Click to expand...

If I haven't already said it...THANKS to ALPA and the NWA guys on property that voted for this. It was very unselfish of you guys to include us furloughees. This cash has turned into a life send during my probationary period.

Again - THANKS!!!!

Baja.
 
Going2Baja said:
If I haven't already said it...THANKS to ALPA and the NWA guys on property that voted for this. It was very unselfish of you guys to include us furloughees. This cash has turned into a life send during my probationary period.

Again - THANKS!!!!

Baja.
Click to expand...
Speaking of the unsecured claim, when is the third sale going to go forth? Any news?
 

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