Can a safety pilot log X-CTY time?

[BLing]

You as the safety pilot are required to be there. So if your going cross country, you log it. I know that ATP bases their whole career pilot program on this (didnt do it myself, but still know). They send two guys in a Seminole to fly all ver the country to build time for their ratings. One guy under the hood, the other being the safety pilot.

However, dont rely on getting a majority of your total time from being a safety pilot if you ever pan on going to an airline! Yes, its legal to log, but its not looked at real well at a job interview.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Bling had some good thoughts that I would like to add to. This is not an attack on you, I know at this point in the game every minute matters.

Logging time as a "required" pilot in a 2000 pound airplane (while not instructing) is pretty lame. The way to become a better pilot is to have patience, study, and be diligent. Fly an aircraft you can handle and work your way up from there. Teach. The time in your logbook is not necessarily proportional to your experience. With patience and a strong work ethic, the opportunity for QUALITY experience will come. Then you won't be a liability to the person sitting next to you.

Be patient, study, and work hard.

 

[avbug]

The weight of the airplane isn't relevant, nor is your position as PIC, or SIC. If the flight went cross country, then you may log cross country.

So far as the safety pilot goes, you are indeed a required flight crewmember, in accordance with 14 CFR 91.109(b).

Logging of flight time is also very clear, in establishing that you may be required by the type certification of the airplane or the regulations under which it's operated. An aircraft operated under 135 under IFR, for example, may require a SIC, even though the aircraft type certification doesn't require it. The SIC is then a required crewmember. Whereas 91.109(b) stipulates the safety pilot as a required crew member, one may also log the time under this application.

If as safety pilot you are the acting PIC, you may log the time as PIC, and the person manipulating the controls may log the time as PIC also, as sole manipulator of the controls. And yes, you may both log cross country. You may also both log instrument, night or any other condition of flight, as you're both there together.

So far as requiring a landing; if you're using the cross country for a purpose other than the ATP in meeting the requirements of a certificate or rating, yes, the flight needs a landing at a point other than the point of departure, and in most cases at least 50 nm away, to be a cross country flight. However, you don't need to be the one making the landing to make it a cross country flight.

 

[Doc Holiday]

Well avbug, I believe we've conflicted once before, as I don't participate here often.

I was not arguing about the legality of logging the time. My point is splitting time merely to fill the logbook is worthless experience wise. Two guys going to low density/uncontrolled airports in VMC for the sole reason of burning gas is ridiculous. Tuck in your skirt, be patient, be diligent and get some time that is worth while.

I will guess that the reg that has be referenced many times above was not intended to get inexperienced pilots into a job quickly.

 

[avbug]

The original poster said nothing about a job or otherwise; he asked a question regarding the logging of time, and a true and correct answer has been given. Arguing beyond that is pointless. Further, the poster said nothing about low density, VFR, or otherwise. These are concepts that, with respect to the thread, you have made up.

 

[AC560]

So far as the safety pilot goes, you are indeed a required flight crewmember, in accordance with 14 CFR 91.109(b).

You are only required when the other pilot is wearing the hood. Once he takes it off your no longer required. My personal opinion is you can't log it but that isn't worth much, so I go with nosehair in that it is a toss up.

 

[avbug]

The safety pilot is required so long as simulated instrument flight is conducted. The presence of a "hood" isn't necessary.

 

[Immune83]

Log PIC, if youre "required" for the flight as safety pilot, and you go on an XC > 50nm then you both can log it.

** unles your flying an a/c youre not rated for (cat. or class).

2ndly, how would anyone be able to prove who was safety pilot? Unless both of you were interviewing for the same company at the same time with the same interviewee..... not likely

 

[AC560]

The safety pilot is required so long as simulated instrument flight is conducted. The presence of a "hood" isn't necessary.

As nosehair said and I agree it is a toss up. In my opinion you aren't simulating instrument flight while landing and as such only the sole manipulator gets to log it as cross country for most things (those under 61.1 which require a landing) as there is no longer a requirement for a SIC.

2ndly, how would anyone be able to prove who was safety pilot? Unless both of you were interviewing for the same company at the same time with the same interviewee..... not likely

Your odds of being caught don't play into whether it is right or wrong.

 

[FreightPup]

I'm using a friend's site, yet again. Avbug, you are absolutely correct. I personally know the guy who started and owns ATP Inc. I posed this same question to him, in his home, many years ago. His explanation was in perfect correlation with what you've said all along here. So much so, in fact, that I was considering going out and doing something similar myself on a much smaller scale than ATP, and just offering the time, not the rating.

It's all about it being a simulated IFR flight, not being 'under the hood'. You can log time as PIC from the right seat as "Safety Pilot", and you can log time from the left seat as "Sole Manipulator". It sounds hokey, but that's not the only goofy sounding reg in the book. Not to mention the fact that this is how all these "airline" type flight schools are conducting this, and getting away with it. It's a good way for beginning pilots to build up a little multi-time so they can get insurance. Flying every other leg, is just like sitting as a co-pilot for any regular airline. You're still there, still helping and you're still learning something... you're just paying for it, instead of getting paid for it.