I love Delta, am loyal. This post by 350 from 2-1/2 years ago always stuck in my craw...
I do not think that DL is in as much financial trouble as the media and other outlets are leading people to believe. Will the pilots end up taking pay cuts? Most definitely but they will not do so and they are in no rush to do so until all the books have been reviewed which they are in the process of doing now. DL pilots did not work their @sses off to set the bar this high only to give it all away without some sort of a fight. Even with the 30% pay cuts they will still remain the highest paid pilots in the industry but they are in no rush to give it all back which so many would like to see happen out of greed, envy, etc, they have fought too hard for where they are present day. Don't get me wrong, Delta is in trouble but I don't think they are nearly as close to BK as most would tend to believe. The problem goes much deeper than the pilots, even with the cuts Delta will still be loosing money so this obviously is not the solution.
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In any case, maybe Delta should stick to the profitable international routes and leave the unprofitable domestic stuff to the LCCs?
One of the main problems with the DL domestic route structure present day is the outsourcing of mainline routes/equipment. If you take a look back in the not so distant past, some of Delta's most profitable routes and cities served, werre by way of the 37's, 57's, and 88's that are now unfortunately being flown by RJ's which must stop and come to an abrupt end if Delta is to get back to where they were when all was well in "Delta Land". The profitable routes must be flown by Delta equipment and Delta pilots, bottom line... I am sure you will see a shift of the sort happening in the very near future since Grinney was never a fan of the RJ's to begin with. Bus. 101. would illustrate that giving away routes/flying to others really isn't going to do anything for you, especially when you were selling out the planes on the same routes that were flown by the larger mainline equipment. ASA/Comair/CHQ are doing great, wonderful, but it surely is not helping DL out at all so expect a change here relatively soon.... This "shift" must occur sooner than later or it is only going to get worse.. Good news is the 1060 are on there way back from off the streets and hopefully this is the first step of many to getting their flying back to where it needs to be, mainline....
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350, I agree, there will always be a few people who are totally loyal to any airline. The $64 question is, are there enough of them?
I think Delta has many many loyal and faithful passengers that would never jump ship regardless of how much they can save by heading over to the "greyhound" of the sky. If you want "class" and top notch service then you fly Delta, if you want to join a cattle heard, save money, eat peanuts, and make five stops to get to where you want to go to then SWA would be more than happy to take your money. This is like comparing the Mercedes to a Cavalier, which one would you rather have if money is no object? I know I would much prefer the better product and not the cheaper no frills car. I don't think that you are going to see DL going anywhere anytime soon, too many people enjoy them, the product, and the good service that they provide.
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In that respect, we agree. SouthWest is the Wal-Mart of the skies...
Exactly... Enough of those people to always make SWA profitable, I fortunately am not one of them.. I flew on them one time and that was enough to last a lifetime. Millions have the same mindset so take your pick....
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Again, agreed... So if Delta wants to compete on price with SWA, then they need to behave like SWA. Otherwise, ditch the cheap tickets, bring back the superior service they had in the past, and become a high-class airline again.
I disagree in the sense that these are two completely different animals and in no way will DL swoop to the level of SWA, they have too much pride and class as a company to do so. I think Delta will refine it's product, get their flying back, improve on different areas, cut costs, etc, and once again be back to doing what made them so successful in the first place. They have a superior product but I truly believe that when they started to match fares and routes, etc, that is what got them into trouble, agreed. They need to stick to doing what they did so well... The boss is no moron and I am sure he has a plan that is going to work... I would in no way count DL out just quite yet. I do think they can make it happen but I also do agree with you that they must ditch this direct competition with the SWA's of the industry.
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I suspect the real problem the big legacy airlines have is they try to be all things to all people.
You have many more people in the "lower classes" that have no options, they go with the cheapest fares since that is all they can afford and for that reason SWA will always remain profitable no matter how south this industry goes...
Last edited by 350DRIVER : 06-27-2004 at 02:41.
I do not think that DL is in as much financial trouble as the media and other outlets are leading people to believe. Will the pilots end up taking pay cuts? Most definitely but they will not do so and they are in no rush to do so until all the books have been reviewed which they are in the process of doing now. DL pilots did not work their @sses off to set the bar this high only to give it all away without some sort of a fight. Even with the 30% pay cuts they will still remain the highest paid pilots in the industry but they are in no rush to give it all back which so many would like to see happen out of greed, envy, etc, they have fought too hard for where they are present day. Don't get me wrong, Delta is in trouble but I don't think they are nearly as close to BK as most would tend to believe. The problem goes much deeper than the pilots, even with the cuts Delta will still be loosing money so this obviously is not the solution.
Quote:
In any case, maybe Delta should stick to the profitable international routes and leave the unprofitable domestic stuff to the LCCs?
One of the main problems with the DL domestic route structure present day is the outsourcing of mainline routes/equipment. If you take a look back in the not so distant past, some of Delta's most profitable routes and cities served, werre by way of the 37's, 57's, and 88's that are now unfortunately being flown by RJ's which must stop and come to an abrupt end if Delta is to get back to where they were when all was well in "Delta Land". The profitable routes must be flown by Delta equipment and Delta pilots, bottom line... I am sure you will see a shift of the sort happening in the very near future since Grinney was never a fan of the RJ's to begin with. Bus. 101. would illustrate that giving away routes/flying to others really isn't going to do anything for you, especially when you were selling out the planes on the same routes that were flown by the larger mainline equipment. ASA/Comair/CHQ are doing great, wonderful, but it surely is not helping DL out at all so expect a change here relatively soon.... This "shift" must occur sooner than later or it is only going to get worse.. Good news is the 1060 are on there way back from off the streets and hopefully this is the first step of many to getting their flying back to where it needs to be, mainline....
Quote:
350, I agree, there will always be a few people who are totally loyal to any airline. The $64 question is, are there enough of them?
I think Delta has many many loyal and faithful passengers that would never jump ship regardless of how much they can save by heading over to the "greyhound" of the sky. If you want "class" and top notch service then you fly Delta, if you want to join a cattle heard, save money, eat peanuts, and make five stops to get to where you want to go to then SWA would be more than happy to take your money. This is like comparing the Mercedes to a Cavalier, which one would you rather have if money is no object? I know I would much prefer the better product and not the cheaper no frills car. I don't think that you are going to see DL going anywhere anytime soon, too many people enjoy them, the product, and the good service that they provide.
Quote:
In that respect, we agree. SouthWest is the Wal-Mart of the skies...
Exactly... Enough of those people to always make SWA profitable, I fortunately am not one of them.. I flew on them one time and that was enough to last a lifetime. Millions have the same mindset so take your pick....
Quote:
Again, agreed... So if Delta wants to compete on price with SWA, then they need to behave like SWA. Otherwise, ditch the cheap tickets, bring back the superior service they had in the past, and become a high-class airline again.
I disagree in the sense that these are two completely different animals and in no way will DL swoop to the level of SWA, they have too much pride and class as a company to do so. I think Delta will refine it's product, get their flying back, improve on different areas, cut costs, etc, and once again be back to doing what made them so successful in the first place. They have a superior product but I truly believe that when they started to match fares and routes, etc, that is what got them into trouble, agreed. They need to stick to doing what they did so well... The boss is no moron and I am sure he has a plan that is going to work... I would in no way count DL out just quite yet. I do think they can make it happen but I also do agree with you that they must ditch this direct competition with the SWA's of the industry.
Quote:
I suspect the real problem the big legacy airlines have is they try to be all things to all people.
You have many more people in the "lower classes" that have no options, they go with the cheapest fares since that is all they can afford and for that reason SWA will always remain profitable no matter how south this industry goes...
Last edited by 350DRIVER : 06-27-2004 at 02:41.
