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Californians, please read!

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TIS

Wing, Nosewheel, Whatever
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Posts
366
As many of you are aware, in the waning days of his administration, California's ousted governor, Gray Davis, tried several desperate measures (in vain) to curry the favor of potential voters.

One of these measures was the signing into law of a bill that gives illegal aliens the right to apply for and receive a California Drivers License.

Governor elect Arnold Schwarzenegger has begun to indicate that he might be persuaded to keep the law in effect provided adequate background checks could be performed. His election seems as though it will not help in the eradication of this new law.

There are many reasons to oppose this law including, but not limited to, the following:

1. A foreign Drivers License IS considered to be proof of competence to operate a motor vehicle in the state of California. A California license is therefore not necessary for a Mexican National, for example, to possess in order to operate a motor vehicle within the state’s borders.

2. A California Drivers License is considered in all of the 50 states, U.S Territories and protectorates, and indeed in many foreign nations, to be valid, stand-alone proof of identification for any individual who possesses one. The reason for this is that current law requires proof of birth date and legal presence in the U.S. as well as a Social Security Number in order to obtain this license. Negating these requirements destroys the foundation of trust that others rightfully place in the document and puts the credibility of California-issued documentation at risk.

3. When a person applies for a Drivers License in California they are AUTOMATICALLY offered the opportunity to register to vote – simply by checking a box on their application. It is not a stretch to consider that a person who would break this country’s laws to come here illegally would also break its laws relating to the most fundamental right of citizenship by checking that box.

4. Whether you support governmental advocacy for illegal immigrants or not, this law is a bad law because it permits, and even INVITES, without recourse, fraud on a massive scale in a number of VERY critical areas.

If you are a (LEGAL) voter in the state of California and oppose the issuance of Drivers Licenses to illegal aliens you should know that a petition to repeal this law has begun circulating.

You may not have heard about the movement growing to repeal this law yet but you’re hearing it now. You can obtain a copy of the petition by going to the following website:

www.saveourlicense.com

The petition itself cannot be downloaded because the language of the bill it seeks to repeal is too lengthy, so they will mail it to you.

The more than 70% of Californians who oppose this law have until December 7, 2003 to collect 400,000 signatures to place the repeal referendum on the March 2004 ballot.

Now, to those of you who feel that this has no bearing on aviation consider this; the FAA requires that designated examiners confirm the identity of applicants to whom they administer practical tests with photo ID. A driver’s license has fulfilled this requirement before now but may soon no longer suffice. What then will be the accepted form of identification for California residents, or for the residents of a number of other states that already permit illegal immigrants to obtain legal identification despite their illegal presence in our country? A newly issued National Identity Card?

This IS worth nipping in the bud BEFORE the feds start getting fancy ideas about how to take care of it.

TIS
 
I know it's boring

But it's serious for those of us in California.

The mainstream media will not cover this story because it's not politically correct to do so. They didn't think the recall effort mounted against Gray Davis was worth reporting either but it turned out to be worth their while.

People who are interested in correcting Gray Davis' final mistakes as Governor of California should know that they now can.

That's all I want to promote.

TIS
 
Don't promote it here.

Regardless of your political inclination, I find your bashing of Governor Davis offensive.

I spent alot of time flying the governor these past few months. He is a very nice, gentle and sincere man. Sure, he doesn't come across that way in the media. But I feel he's been bashed enough. You won your recall. Now please, start being human and leave the guy alone.
 
Moderators willing...

...I'll promote it here, thank you very much.

There's a reason he's been tossed and it's not because he's a nice guy. And just for the record, a startling number of his former staffers would take exception to your chracterization of him as "gentle."

Besides all that, this really ISN'T about Davis anyway even though he's the root cause of it. This is about preserving a nation founded on laws - laws that were origninally conceived to prevent governmental abuses and double standards such as we see in this piece of legislation.

To relate this once again, to aviation, did you know that Mohammed Atta was detained in Florida for something like 36 hours on a traffic stop because HE HAD NO DRIVER'S LICENSE????? The Florida cops may not have known what to do with the likes of him them but you can be sure that a foreigner with no proper driving credentials will raise more than a few eyebrows now.

No English, I'm gonna promote this as much as I'm allowed to because I don't want people who shouldn't be here to be able to take advantage of the stupidity of the majority of the population and the leaders they elect to represent and lead them. I'd really rather that people who mean us harm (and others) not be able to create a false identity through fraud as easily as my kids can buy gumballs from a grocery store machine, and I sure as H_LL don't want them voting here.

TIS
 
Well, I'm not a Californian, but I'll read anything TIS posts.

TIS, forget about the detractors. I'm glad you took the time to post this, if for no other reason than letting us know that liberal Republicans must be avoided just like liberal Democratics. What's Arnold thinking?

regards,
enigma
 
Gray Davis

English,
Nice guy? Oh well, then. That changes everything.
Eva Braun thought Adolf was nice, too, no doubt. Totally irrelevant.
 
Besides, the rest of the country is sick and tired of helping clean up the social and economic problems that California's politics creates. This driver's license idea is yet another example of the stupidity that goes on out there. Remember Ebonics class?

Archie Bunker said it best. "California, where the fruits are nuts and the nuts are fruits."
 
My only point is that I think genuine political discourse should include debate of the issues, not bashing of INDIVIDUALS. Go ahead and say you don't like Davis' stand on licensing of illegal immigrants, say you don't like the domestic partner initiative, say anything you want about the economy of California. I'm just personally tired of personal attacks on people in public places such as this. Call me naive, but I don't think it's very nice to say mean things about people. I think it's better to discuss the issues.

This isn't about Davis being "nice", or any other comment I made. This is about people reading hurtful things being written about them personally and being hurt. That's what I was trying to relay in my post. Now, I know many of you will come back and state that he deserves the treatment because of what happened to California under his administration, or that because he's in a public position he deserves the scrutiny and criticism. I don't agree. I think criticism of his decisions is fine, even great...we are all entitled to our opinions. But nowhere is it written that we are entitled to ruin a man and his reputation because he made decisions we didn't like. The proper fix is to vote another governor into office. That's done.

So please, debate the issues (if you really must on an aviation forum) but don't make it a personal attack.
 
I'm confused. Where is the personal attack on Davis? Where is the Davis bashing? Was it there, and then edited?

Am looking forward to signing the petition.

Regards.
 
Furloboy...exactly...

English........you need to relax and re-read TIS' post. Where is all this supposed "personnal bashing" you are huffing and puffing about (especially in his first post)??

It is quite evident to most other people reading this thread that he is attcking the issue of illegal aliens being allowed to get drivers licenses (which I would be totally against also....yet another reason why California should just break off and float away).
 
Don't promote it here.

Geeze, what fun would we have if pilots couldn't vent a little here?

Seriously, I haven't run across much material where Davis is being "bashed". Taken to task for his policies and activities, absolutely. That's politics.

TIS, thanks for mentioning the license issue. This is a seemingly benign, yet far reaching issue that can affect the future of not only California, but the nation.
 
My apologies then, for taking TIS to task. I've just heard so much name-calling of Davis that I was reading more into TIS' post than there was.
 
"This driver's license idea is yet another example of the stupidity that goes on out there."

Not to mention the fact that they've elected the Terminator as their governor. Don't Californians realize that they're the laughing stock of the U.S. right now?
 
AeroBoy said:
Don't Californians realize that they're the laughing stock of the U.S. right now?

Who cares what other states feel about California? They all suck compared to it.

If California seceeded (sp?) from the union we would have something like the 5th largest economy in the world. The management may need some work but CA is the best state in the union (my opinion of course :D ).

Besides, where do all the hot chicks want to go when they turn 18? Yup, California baby!! Laugh at our state all you want, we can't hear you over all your ladies moaning and screaming!! YEAH!!

Peace!

Skeezer
 
Last edited:
I would remind you that...

...people laughed when the recall idea was first proposed. They laughed harder while signatures were quietly and patiently being gathered, and they laughed hardest when the Secretary of State tried to refuse to certify the signatures that had been gathered when signature requirements were met. If it wasn't the recall itself being impossibly absurd, it was the field of candidates running. EVERYONE who said, "No," in any way, however, at ANY point in the entire process, has been PROVEN to be out of step and out of touch with political and social reality.

In short, THEY WERE ALL WRONG!

So, I would ask, what reason is there to believe that they are now suddenly correct in their assessments of the viability of Arnold's administration? There isn't even an administration in place to assess yet!!! Their analytical abilities are presumably the same ones they used to poo-poo the recall. That's some pretty shaky ground, as appropriate as that may be for California, upon which to rest new forecasts of doom and gloom for the state.

California is the fifth largest economy in the world! This state has an obligation to be better run than most because the consequences of NOT running it properly have a DIRECT and DRAMATIC bearing on the nation as a whole, like it or not. I think you have to give the voters here credit for understanding that, at the very least, they were not being served by their leader in a way that merited continued employment in that position.

I didn't vote for Arnold because I didn't think he was the best qualified candidate, but he DOES represent a significant change from Davis and the politics-as-usual crowd that have run my home state into the ground. I'm willing to watch and see what he does. What I know is that if he can earn my vote in 2006 it'll be because he's put enough things straight to see improvements on the horizon.

Job one, in my book, is getting this Driver's License thing OFF the state's books! Or, as Hans und Franz would say, "Get this girly-man law out of my sight. Legislators will put down barbells and prepare for manly government NOW!" At least we have a governor who can do the accent better than Dana Carvey. That's gotta be a plus!

TIS
 
You have to love liberals and their follies!! But, when you stand for nothing except the reacquisition of power the Libs will try anything!! And, since they see nothing but the color of someone's skin it makes sense to them. Since the idea of granting licenses to illegals is mostly directed towards our friends south of the border I will address that only.
Having lived in Mexico I have to say that they are a wonderful people. Great food, drink and a zest for life. All life! Ya, that's right most are pro-life!! Because, (drum role) most are very religious Roman Catholics! The also love to own guns!! 4 Wheelers are also very popular!
So the Liberals think that by allowing a group a license thereby gaining voting access that this group will block vote for the Dems.
Thinking that a group will vote a certain way because of their ethnicity sounds awfully racist to me!!
 
Many liberal policies are based on the very racist idea that non-white people are unable to compete in the world without a government imposed bias.

Most of the cubans in Florida are Republicans. :D
 
Re: Gray Davis

prodigal said:
Nice guy? Oh well, then. That changes everything. Eva Braun thought Adolf was nice, too, no doubt.
Say what you will about Adolph...he loved dogs and hated smokers. :D

(Put the pick-axes down, guys. I'm kidding.)
 
skeezer said:
Who cares what other states feel about California? They all suck compared to it.
Peace!

Skeezer

Hey Skeezer,

You almost sound like a Texan. Too bad for you, you're not, and California isn't either.

Long live the REPUBLIC OF TEXAS

enigma






PS. just kidding.
 
wil said:
You have to love liberals and their follies!! But, when you stand for nothing except the reacquisition of power the Libs will try anything!! And, since they see nothing but the color of someone's skin it makes sense to them. Since the idea of granting licenses to illegals is mostly directed towards our friends south of the border I will address that only.
Having lived in Mexico I have to say that they are a wonderful people. Great food, drink and a zest for life. All life! Ya, that's right most are pro-life!! Because, (drum role) most are very religious Roman Catholics! The also love to own guns!! 4 Wheelers are also very popular!
So the Liberals think that by allowing a group a license thereby gaining voting access that this group will block vote for the Dems.
Thinking that a group will vote a certain way because of their ethnicity sounds awfully racist to me!!

What about all the illegals from eastern block countries? Nobody talks about them right? I guees they are OK. I GUARENTEE YOU that if all those illegals were from Europe all of you conservatives would welcome them with open arms. So if most illegals from Mexico are conservative Republicans, how come the GOP wants to kick em' out? You know the answer to that.....

See you in 2004....
 
No matter who is responsible for this, IT IS AN IDIOTIC IDEA! I agree, it needs to be sh*t canned and fast! If you lived near the border, and had to deal with all the illegal alien issues in your city, you would understand better why this is such a bad idea too.

TIS said:
There are many reasons to oppose this law including, but not limited to, the following:

1. A foreign Drivers License IS considered to be proof of competence to operate a motor vehicle in the state of California. A California license is therefore not necessary for a Mexican National, for example, to possess in order to operate a motor vehicle within the state’s borders.

True, it is absolutely NOT necessary!! (No matter what country they come from.) So why offer it?! Esp when you consider #4 below...


TIS said:
2. A California Drivers License is considered in all of the 50 states, U.S Territories and protectorates, and indeed in many foreign nations, to be valid, stand-alone proof of identification for any individual who possesses one.


******The reason for this is that current law requires proof of birth date and legal presence in the U.S. as well as a Social Security Number in order to obtain this license. *****

Negating these requirements destroys the foundation of trust that others rightfully place in the document and puts the credibility of California-issued documentation at risk.
[/B]

That middle part is outrageous! We have enough illegals in this state. Giving them an ID will only make it easier for them to get a free ride and elude deportation because they will be assumed to be citizens or at the very least, green card holders.

TIS said:
3. When a person applies for a Drivers License in California they are AUTOMATICALLY offered the opportunity to register to vote – simply by checking a box on their application. It is not a stretch to consider that a person who would break this country’s laws to come here illegally would also break its laws relating to the most fundamental right of citizenship by checking that box.

4. Whether you support governmental advocacy for illegal immigrants or not, this law is a bad law because it permits, and even INVITES, without recourse, fraud on a massive scale in a number of VERY critical areas. [/B]

Only one point was enough to get me to sign.......
 
Your post was moronic. You are making an assumption that all Republicans are racists. B.S. It doesn't matter if the illegals are white, brown, black, yellow, or purple, they are still LAW BREAKERS. Mexicans get picked out because they outnumber the rest, and the fact that Mexico is adjacent to the USA; to call a group racist because they are identifying a visible problem is ignorant.

In short:
Boot ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS out of our country IMMEDIATELY, REGARDLESS OF ORIGIN.
 
Most liberals, like I was, tend to lose sight of the idea of our country being a country of laws, and the importance that we continue to obey those laws. Many people are waiting patiently for American citizenship and they deserve to have their patience rewarded, not circumvented.

We also need to make a clear distinction between Cubans who are political dissidents and are rightly eligible for asylum, and those who are simply tired of Castro and want to live in Miami. We can't have an entire country of asylum-eligible people within boating distance of America without finding some way to properly qualify the immigrants, just as we have always done.

While one of our major strengths is the wide variety of people that make up the USA, we need to retain a modicum of control over how many people from individual counties are entering the US.

We have not done that. Indeed, we have not even enforced our own laws, creating a global welfare center for free benefits.
 

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