CAL/UAL Solution

[SuperFLUF]

So a 20% 777 pilot would be a 20% 777 pilot on combined list?

Not exactly.
People bid equipment and seat for all sorts of reasons and at each airline the equipment is not staffed in pure seniority order at either airline. The merger policy does not allow any "leapfrogging" of a pilot over pilots they were junior to at their airline.
So, a junior pilot at CAL who is a 777 FO doesn't get moved ahead of a pilot senior to him or her who is a 737 FO in a more desirable or at a more desirable seniority level (especially with the ravages of PBS).

The way I understand it (and this is over simplified) is that the SLI would start of with a simple relative seniority integration and then is modified for certain seniority segments of the list based on things like the widebody ratios, career expectations, longevity.....etc.

 

[Fubijaakr]

You obviously don't know anything about ALPA merger policy. DOH means almost nothing.

DoH is not part of the ALPA Merger policy. Look it up.

 

[scoreboardII]

Blufin, don't drag and bash SWA into this mess, you turned them down, remember?

Question for Southwest pilots........
Views: 1,436
Posted By bluefin

Question for Southwest pilots........

Back in 2000 I was offered an interview, but declined (which I regret deeeeply)because I was hired at one of those legacy carriers and was in training. I am reluctant to put money down on a type...

 

[densoo]

Completely wrong. Boeing had no intentions of making a common type. The airlines were the ones pressuring Boeing to do it. There is nothing for Boeing to gain by doing this. To this day, it is not decided. Boeing is still leaning toward making it seperate while the airlines pressure the other way.

(Speed Lines Media) by Walter Varney, 4/1/2010 -- The airline today announced FAA approval of a common type rating for the B-777 and the soon to be delivered B-787. The common type rating will save on training costs and allow operations with fewer pilots which is in keeping with the airline's evironmental position of lowering its carbon footprint.

In a related development, the airline said it is very close to an agreement with the FAA to have a common type rating across its entire aircraft fleet. With today's retirement of its last 737-300, or so-called "round dial" aircraft, all of the airline's aircraft now are EFIS "glass cockpit" displays Boeing aircraft. Since all 737 pilots are already qualified on all five models of the aircraft, the airline is taking this "universally assignable" pilot concept to the next level--all pilots qualified in all aircraft.

Once pilots accomplish a two-hour online training module from the comfort of their own home, they will be awarded the "B-Type" which stands for "Boeing Type Rating," and will be able to fly any Boeing aircraft on the airline's property, which include the B737, B757, B767, B777, and soon the B787.

"The flexibility this allows is obvious," said a company spokesman. "If a 787 pilot gets stuck at the security checkpoint and isn't available for the New York to Hong Kong flight, then a Boston-bound 737 pilot can be pulled off the plane on the adjacent gate to operate the 787 to the Far East, allowing for uninterrupted and ontime operations for our passengers."

This kind of outside the box thinking may be exactly what the airline needs as the combined carriers compete against the mega-carrier Delta, which has separate training and scheduling in all types and subtypes of aircraft, and also has separate training and pilot pools for domestic and international operations.

"While some say it is safer for pilots to operate a single type of aircraft in a geographic area they are thoroughly familiar with," the spokesman said, "it is far cheaper to have all pilots operate in all areas and with all aircraft that they are just somewhat familiar with."

The stock closed up today on the news.

 

[thor2j]

Your source?

I'm just going by the info that Boeing has been putting out. I was on a blastmail list for Sonic Cruiser development info and when that was killed I ended up being on Boeing's "world design team" mailing list (like quite a few others I'm sure). They used that public group for surveys and polling to make some public opinion based decisions on the (stupid) name and interior design features. They hosted online chats with engineers and the chief pilots.
When the cockpit design was revealed and in a few of the online chats they stated how it was designed so that 777 pilots could fly it with minimal differences training. That was quite a few years ago.

Boeing 787 engineers

 

[COpilot]

Can someone from DL or NW please give me a short explanation of how the SLI was done with your two ALPA lists? ie; mostly precentage, seat position, seat lock, career progression?

thank you

 

[SuperFLUF]

Here's a thread from the past that discusses it: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=119383

 

[saabservant]

any ideas where the 1400+ual furloughs will land? stapled to bottom, i suppose, with no hope of recall, ever...

 

[FDJ2]

Can someone from DL or NW please give me a short explanation of how the SLI was done with your two ALPA lists? ie; mostly precentage, seat position, seat lock, career progression?

thank you

Mostly category/status ratios with some credit for the greater number of NWA retirements in the near term.

Here is an excerpt from the award which pretty much explains it.

"We have chosen, instead, to recognize the fleets as divided simply into wide-body and narrow-body groupings, two for Captains, two for FOs.12"​

"12 All Delta and NWA B757s are considered wide-body aircraft for this purpose because Delta operates its B767s and 757s as a combined fleet."

"Constructing the Integrated System Seniority List.​

The ISSL has been constructed from the pre-merger Delta and pre-merger
Northwest pilot seniority lists in effect on November 1, 2008, as provided to the Panel by the parties, in the manner set forth below.​

The relative position of each pilot on the pre-merger lists remained unchanged on the ISSL.(no reordering of premerger lists)​

1. All pilots on long-term sick leave (12 months or longer) were removed
from the pre-merger lists. (taken out for the purposes of constructing status/category ratios of active pilots)​

2. The 274 oldest Northwest pilots were removed from the pre-merger list.
(credit given to NWA pilots for increased attrition over the near term) ​

3. The first 3045 positions on the ISSL were filled with the first 1961 Delta
pilots and 1084 Northwest pilots on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of 1961:1084 beginning with a Delta pilot.(wide bodied captains positions)​

4. The next 2433 positions on the ISSL were filled with the next 1313 Delta pilots and 1120 Northwest pilots on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of
1313:1120 beginning with a Delta pilot.(narrow bodied captain positions)​

5. The next 3932 positions on the ISSL were filled with the next 2580 Delta pilots and 1352 Northwest pilots on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of
2580:1352 beginning with a Delta pilot.(wide bodied first officer positions)​

6. The ISSL was completed with Delta and Northwest pilots remaining on the pre-merger lists in a ratio of 1314:957 Delta to Northwest pilots beginning with a Delta pilot until both pre-merger lists are exhausted subject to paragraph 7, below.(narrow bodied first officer positions)​

7. All pilots with dates of hire after April 14, 2008, were placed at the bottom of the ISSL in order of date of hire.(pilots hired by DAL after the merger announcement)​

8. The Northwest pilots pulled in paragraph 2. were inserted directly above
the next junior Northwest pilot.(the 274 oldest NWA pilots pulled out earlier are plugged back in to account for greater NWA pilot retirements in the near term)​

9. The pilots on long-term sick leave pulled in paragraph 1. were inserted
directly above the next junior pilot on his/her respective pre-merger list."
(these pilots aren't active and were pulled out at the beginning)​