CAL Recall Bid - Any Bets?

[skywdriver]

Everything out there is saying bid with recalls by Sept 1st, any bets? Any other rumors?

Also, any bets that there will be recalls, but those recalls will be used by the company as leverage to get a new contract signed? This would most certainly be a silly move on their part, as we all know the union will not sign anything over in a contract that is unacceptable, regardless of threats affecting recalls.

 

[Bigoober]

as we all know the union will not sign anything over in a contract that is unacceptable

We do?

Sorry, my sarcasm meter isn't working too well right now so I don't know if this is being said tongue in cheek or not.

 

[bizicmo]

The questions to be asked are
1) Will there be a bid at all? They don't have to have one
2) Will the bid show recalls?
3) If it does show recalls, will those people see a classroom before next August? What I mean by that is, the classes start before the latest possible date as per the contract.
4) If it does show recalls, and between now and next August the pilot contract is signed, seniority lists are merged and the the merger is closed, would it be the CAL 147 furloughs and then UAL furloughs? Or since everything is merged at that point, even though it was a CAL recall initially, would it just then go by the new combined list?
Example, CAL recalls 300 on the bid, which would cover every CAL pilot on furlough. They wait to make phone calls until the last possible second, next july or so. Between now and then everything merger wise get finalize with a new seniority list. Now instead of being about #75 on the CAL recall list becomes #750 on the new combined list and is no where near making that recall.

 

[captain]

You just killed my hope for recall buzz!

 

[densoo]

1 Sept: everyone recalled plus some UAL furloughs hired at CAL

4 Oct: "if you don't accept a concessionary contract, no recalls and more furloughs"

 

[Jetjockey]

1 Sept: everyone recalled plus some UAL furloughs hired at CAL

4 Oct: "if you don't accept a concessionary contract, no recalls and more furloughs"

Nov, prepare for strike ballot.

Dec, everyone gets the holidays off

 

[AWACoff]

The questions to be asked are
1) Will there be a bid at all? They don't have to have one
2) Will the bid show recalls?
3) If it does show recalls, will those people see a classroom before next August? What I mean by that is, the classes start before the latest possible date as per the contract.
4) If it does show recalls, and between now and next August the pilot contract is signed, seniority lists are merged and the the merger is closed, would it be the CAL 147 furloughs and then UAL furloughs? Or since everything is merged at that point, even though it was a CAL recall initially, would it just then go by the new combined list?
Example, CAL recalls 300 on the bid, which would cover every CAL pilot on furlough. They wait to make phone calls until the last possible second, next july or so. Between now and then everything merger wise get finalize with a new seniority list. Now instead of being about #75 on the CAL recall list becomes #750 on the new combined list and is no where near making that recall.

Contractually, Continental is required to have a minimum of 1 more system bid this calendar year. The systems bids can be no further than 8 months apart and there must be at least 1 from January to June and at least 1 from July to December.

 

[bizicmo]

Are you sure they must have one more bid? that's a serious question, no sarcasm. I though the requirement was at least 2 a year with it no farther then 8 months in between bids. I don't remember the one must be between jan to june and one must be july to dec. And if that's the case they still don't need to have one until december.

 

[bizicmo]

I think i know the answer, but i'm still wondering about the last question i raised about having a recall bid, then not calling anybody, merger is completed before next summer and then the recall going by new merged list instead of cal list first then ual.
I know my post sounds selfish but I would like to know all the possibilities.

 

[densoo]

Nov, prepare for strike ballot.

Dec, everyone gets the holidays off

Done, and planning for it.

 

[AWACoff]

Are you sure they must have one more bid? that's a serious question, no sarcasm. I though the requirement was at least 2 a year with it no farther then 8 months in between bids. I don't remember the one must be between jan to june and one must be july to dec. And if that's the case they still don't need to have one until december.

Are you a CAL pilot or UAL pilot? Yes, contractually we are required to have 1 more bid per Contract '02. I agree, technically they could have one December 31. I just try to keep the information factual. This is right out of Section 24.3.C.1.

 

[bizicmo]

Thank you for clarifying. My copy of the contract is in storage with the rest of my belongings.

 

[AWACoff]

Thank you for clarifying. My copy of the contract is in storage with the rest of my belongings.

I keep mine in the crapper. Just in case of emergencies

 

[Jetjockey]

Done, and planning for it.

Right on brother. That's the first question I ask guys when the talk of money, or look at my toys (boats, cars, planes, girlfriends) pictures come out. "How's your strike fund savings coming along?"

 

[jetpig32]

I was recalled monhs ago on the last bid. Just haven't really been recalled if u know what I mean.

 

[skywdriver]

lots of rumors starting to float around about the bid being delayed, what a surprise.

 

[densoo]

lots of rumors starting to float around about the bid being delayed, what a surprise.

It is sad for those suffering under horrible reserve rules, displaced away from home, and especially furloughs, that this semi-annual ritual raises hopes so high, and then dashes them. Bid will come out, but it probably won't have 787 and probably won't recall more than a handful more furloughs. What a shame.

 

[bizicmo]

787 delayed again
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Boein...tml?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

 

[densoo]

787 delayed again

"Middle of the first quarter"--lousy. Just like other estimates, this is going to be 31 March. "Tomorrow" means at the end of the day, "next week" means Friday, "next month" means last day of month maybe. CAL's system bid was "late August" which is now September.

Boeing Co. postponed the delivery of its first 787 to the middle of the first quarter of 2011, compounding a string of delays for the jetliner that is already more than two years past its original scheduled debut.

The latest delay is the result of engine delivery problems, Boeing said in a statement early Friday.

http://www.komonews.com/news/boeing/101624963.html

 

[whatitdoing?]

Just talked with my union friend and said bid coming out next week with recalls and open positions for hiring. Said 787 delays won't affect it because we're getting the GenX GE engines, not RR. We'll see........

 

[bizicmo]

Just talked with my union friend and said bid coming out next week with recalls and open positions for hiring. Said 787 delays won't affect it because we're getting the GenX GE engines, not RR. We'll see........

Can you ask him if those recalls will receive phone calls for class prior to the merger being complete with a new combined seniority list?

 

[erich]

Can you ask him if those recalls will receive phone calls for class prior to the merger being complete with a new combined seniority list?

I have herd the same and that we will be trained. Next Wed will be an interesting day.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Can you ask him if those recalls will receive phone calls for class prior to the merger being complete with a new combined seniority list?

I don't think he knows. What I like about my source is if he doesn't know, he says so. Gotta respect that. But he did say it'll be out next week. At least it's a start in the right direction.

 

[skywdriver]

Can you ask him if those recalls will receive phone calls for class prior to the merger being complete with a new combined seniority list?

The TA states that if either pilot intends to hire "new" pilots, it will first offer the positions to the other airline in seniority order. New implies that all furloughed pilots were given the option to accept before the offer was extended to fill "new hire" slots.

There is another section that says continental and united will keep their operations separate until the joint certificate is received, stating that neither airline will interchange pilots between their operations.

This language seems to protect all current CAL furloughs from getting recalled based on the new seniority list if the recall came after the list was arbitrated.

 

[bizicmo]

The TA states that if either pilot intends to hire "new" pilots, it will first offer the positions to the other airline in seniority order. New implies that all furloughed pilots were given the option to accept before the offer was extended to fill "new hire" slots.

There is another section that says continental and united will keep their operations separate until the joint certificate is received, stating that neither airline will interchange pilots between their operations.

This language seems to protect all current CAL furloughs from getting recalled based on the new seniority list if the recall came after the list was arbitrated.

What if the joint certificate is received prior to anyone receiving phone calls for class dates? IF Management wants this joint contract done by oct, then the merged seniority list can't be to far behind, why couldn't they close this merger with a new certificate by next spring? I am not an expert but the only thing left would be the government, which I haven't heard many arguments saying they would stop the merger. Once the merger is complete my guess is that they would recall based on the new merged seniority list, not CAL first UAL next. The only reason I bring this up this crazy idea that they might not call anybody until next summer for recall classes is that they haven't called anybody from the last recall. Again i am not an expert but if the joint certificate is received prior to a person starting class it sounds like one might be screwed.

 

[Jetjockey]

The joint certificate (FAA approval) will not be completed until the end of 2011. Company time line as published. CAL Recalls, and UAL furloughees will be filling vacancies by then.

 

[bizicmo]

The joint certificate (FAA approval) will not be completed until the end of 2011. Company time line as published. CAL Recalls, and UAL furloughees will be filling vacancies by then.

Thank you, that's all i needed to hear. I didn't know that.

 

[skywdriver]

The joint certificate (FAA approval) will not be completed until the end of 2011. Company time line as published. CAL Recalls, and UAL furloughees will be filling vacancies by then.

and that is probably the quickest it can be done. i can only imagine the paperwork involved. they have to have to rewrite the whole book, training, maint, SOP, etc.

 

[tie1on]

with potential delays added to 787, I suspect a system bid of 40 -50 pilots. Just a guess.

 

[captain]

just heard 787 delayed until 1st qtr of 2011, we're screwed.

recalls for CAL guys wont happen until after the merge...

that's my bet, we'll see Wednesday.