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CAL Pilots and Opentime

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100/hour/5y

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2002
Posts
188
Love the G'tards for picking up all the opentime on the 756 for EWR FO's... I know you guys miss doing 6 crossings during the summer months and flying 95hrs...
The company is planning on you guys this summer to do the same which we know you will... Just remember at CAL if you time out in NOV you get no pay for DEC...
Plus 4 757-300 for the year but -15 fo's on the new bid... The company thanks you for all your hard flying...
At DAL or AA you could only do at max 4 crossing but a CAL it's 6 or more if you IRO...
Today MAD was pickup and a deadhead to mco fly to IAH and deadhead home to EWR was pickup...
Love my time off... 6 days on and no flying... Thanks
 
they do that crap in iah on the 73 too....bunch of w*************************....
Its just as bad on the CA side of things
 
In this discussion, does a "crossing" equate to a round trip or just one way?

In this discussion, it refers to trips, so six round trips, or 12 crossings a month. This is due to poor work rules and "juniority"...some Shannon's, Dublin's, Belfast's, pay less than 14:00 hours for 3 days of work. Some pilots have up to 18 days of straight flying awarded by PBS WITH a checkride event mixed in for fun! Now, granted, some pilots prefer to stack up their trips to allow for less commutes, but more than a few have been awarded lines of time that include 9+ days of work in a row. I think 18 is the most I have heard about, though.
 
Now that's funny in a VERY sad sort of way.

Why is that? Seems like a reasonable question.

Not everyone's international trips go to Europe or Asia and return. The trip keeps going around the world resulting in ONE Atlantic "crossing" and ONE Pacific "crossing". Others end on another continent after only one "crossing" and the pilot commercials home.

6 one-way "crossings" a month is a lot but seems reasonable every once in a while. 12 is over the top. Hence my question to get clarification.
 
READ.... I.E. stop saving the Company by picking up opentime!

SYSTEM BID 11-02
Last Thursday, the Company provided the Scheduling Committee with our first look at system bid 11-02 only minutes prior to its release. Conveniently, this bid was released the day before the monthly System Staffing Committee meeting (SSC), rather than after our input. To tell you that we were disappointed would be an understatement at best. Here are a few facts about this bid:

• Only four retirements are considered during the 12 month period.
• The bid numbers include the end of all RFL and LTVRF.
• These numbers include all returning COLAs that do not have the right to extend.
• There are no recalls.
• These numbers include significant reductions in full time training instructors, with instructors returning back to the line or leaving employment at CAL.
• Missing is a viable plan to appropriately staff the HNL flying from the west coast.

Based on our current information, this bid does not make sense. In the last system bid (10-08), the Company initially accounted for 24 active pilot retirements (only four are projected for this one). The actual number when Dec. 1, 2009 rolled around was closer to 70. It is a fact that historically, many more pilots have retired each year. We have more than 750 pilots who are 58 years of age or older and between 200 and 300 who are over age 60.

“With an increasing number of 777 Captains and First Officers over age 60, be aware that FAR pairing regulations may have the practical effect of restricting monthly PBS award options for 777 First Officers who are over 60.”

In making this statement, Flight Operations Management seems to recognize the issue, but their staffing numbers as reflected in the bid clearly do not. With the LTVRF and RFL programs ending this spring, COLA returns tapped out and the training instructor pipeline closed, we have real concerns about the summer flying season. It appears that with this bid, they plan to use your quality of life to squeak through another summer. When they run short, we should expect them to use the same tired staffing tricks they’ve used before:

• Cramming ridiculously large amounts of block time, credit and items that look and feel like work, but don’t count as work (a.k.a. deadhead and CQP) onto our schedules
• Double reserve periods in a single calendar day
• Rolling reserve days off
• Instructor TIA days
• Junior manning
• Reassignments
• Captains flying in the right seat

We are concerned that with this bid, this summer will shape up to be the same or worse than the infamous summer of 2007. We all remember the staffing nightmares of that period: the situation was detrimental to pilots, harmed our relationship with management and resulted in flight cancellations that diminished passengers’ views of Continental.

I have asked our Scheduling Committee to continue to work this issue. We are not satisfied with the system bid and we will be talking with senior management about our concerns.

F/O Doug Marotta
CAL MEC Vice-Chairma
 
READ.... I.E. stop saving the Company by picking up opentime!



• Only four retirements are considered during the 12 month period.
• The bid numbers include the end of all RFL and LTVRF.
• These numbers include all returning COLAs that do not have the right to extend.
• There are no recalls.
• These numbers include significant reductions in full time training instructors, with instructors returning back to the line or leaving employment at CAL.
• Missing is a viable plan to appropriately staff the HNL flying from the west coast.

Not trying to stir the rumor pot, but what are the chances that Management is doing this on purpose with the knowedge that a possible merger with United would alleviate these staffing issues? The point above that worries me the most about this is the last one, if United has plenty of staffing on the west coast, that would explain why CAL isn't worried about HNL staffing. This would also explain why they could reduce the training department, United pilots wouldn't require any significant training.

I'm only guessing and I REALLY hope I'm wrong here. Thoughts?
 
A little birdy told me the company will be trying to balance things on the head of a needle this summer.

Reserves should plan to get raped. Lineholders should plan to have their QoL decimated.

Rumors of "planned" vacation cancellations.

Even the saviors may not save them this time around.
 
Not trying to stir the rumor pot, but what are the chances that Management is doing this on purpose with the knowedge that a possible merger with United would alleviate these staffing issues? The point above that worries me the most about this is the last one, if United has plenty of staffing on the west coast, that would explain why CAL isn't worried about HNL staffing. This would also explain why they could reduce the training department, United pilots wouldn't require any significant training.

I'm only guessing and I REALLY hope I'm wrong here. Thoughts?

They're training IAH reserves for the HNL stuff. I'm not worried about a UAL merger...yet.
 
A little birdy told me the company will be trying to balance things on the head of a needle this summer.

Reserves should plan to get raped. Lineholders should plan to have their QoL decimated.

Rumors of "planned" vacation cancellations.

Even the saviors may not save them this time around.

But the question remains, will there be plenty of open time to pick up? :)
 
Latest is that 45% of CAL's smallest domestic base's block hours in March (and beyond) is the HNL pairing. Trips will be the current unproductive, redeye 5-day, plus a new super productive 3-day that will carry an IRO. It will be an interesting summer.
 
What are the poor w h o r e s going to do under the new contract when they can't waive DH or VAC anymore? Maybe that's why they keep bending over for Fred, the more they do it, the longer they get to keep working under POS '02 and bend over some more! FUPMFUPMFUPMFUPMFUPM

P.S.- Any chance the previously mentioned ladies of the night are RFL pilots? That would at least excuse their actions in my opinion.
 
Why is that? Seems like a reasonable question.

Not everyone's international trips go to Europe or Asia and return. The trip keeps going around the world resulting in ONE Atlantic "crossing" and ONE Pacific "crossing". Others end on another continent after only one "crossing" and the pilot commercials home.

6 one-way "crossings" a month is a lot but seems reasonable every once in a while. 12 is over the top. Hence my question to get clarification.

I suppose. I certainly meant no ill will towards you by making that cynical comment.
I meant more that...Only a chap from a reasonable airline would assume that a 75-76 crew would do 3-5 transatlantic trips a month. At CAL a 75-76 crew normally performs 6 x 15hour trips :).
 
IMO, this bid says more about right-sizing for a merger (or downsizing to give flying to our alliance partners, take your pick) than anything else.
 
I've worked for more than one carrier who's pilots picked up open trips with guys on furlough. While I think CAL has a larger % of losers (95% of which are either on the 777 or based in IAH or BOTH) than the average major, the practice is not uncommon. Unfortunate but not entirely unique.
 
Open time has no relation to furloughs. Whether the time is covered or not, it has absolutely no relationship to furloughs. Why pilots don't get this after 75 years is completely beyond me.
 
Open time has no relation to furloughs. Whether the time is covered or not, it has absolutely no relationship to furloughs. Why pilots don't get this after 75 years is completely beyond me.

You are correct for the most part, but it would send a unified message to the company the we will not cover for your lack of staffing.

But instead many will continue to get on their knees for the company, only to claim that they need the money to support a lifestyle which is beyond their means to begin with.

If you pick up a trip here and there to help when life happens that is one thing. If you pick up as much as possible, some of which is in the right seat, and then brag to everyone how big your paycheck is, that makes you a scumbag. IMHO

Cheers
 
Open time has no relation to furloughs. Whether the time is covered or not, it has absolutely no relationship to furloughs. Why pilots don't get this after 75 years is completely beyond me.
Block time divided by hours flown per pilot equals the number of pilots needed. If pilots fly more hours there are fewer pilots needed. Am I missing something here?

NWA pretty much proved this point a couple of summers ago when they stopped picking up open time. They ran out of pilots to fly the planes and had to cancel hundreds of flights.

While it may not be apparent tomorrow or next week, a company will calculate the long term need for pilots based on how much time each pilot flies on average. The time that is picked up above and beyond what is assigned monthly is going to be part of that average.

The problem at CAL is that the company looks at 100 hr/mo and 1000 hrs/yr that the FAA allows and essentially makes this their goal for each pilot to fly. Top level management sees annual block hours divided by 1000 and says why do we need more pilots than that? Then many pilots buy into this save the company from themselves mentality and work themselves into the grave. And it isn't just the early 80s hires.
 
i heard a couple Captains the other day talking about how nice it was to sell their vacations and pick up time to maximize pay. people like that want to work that much amaze me, especially with pilots on the street. :puke:
 
Block time divided by hours flown per pilot equals the number of pilots needed. If pilots fly more hours there are fewer pilots needed. Am I missing something here?

NWA pretty much proved this point a couple of summers ago when they stopped picking up open time. They ran out of pilots to fly the planes and had to cancel hundreds of flights.

While it may not be apparent tomorrow or next week, a company will calculate the long term need for pilots based on how much time each pilot flies on average. The time that is picked up above and beyond what is assigned monthly is going to be part of that average.

The problem at CAL is that the company looks at 100 hr/mo and 1000 hrs/yr that the FAA allows and essentially makes this their goal for each pilot to fly. Top level management sees annual block hours divided by 1000 and says why do we need more pilots than that? Then many pilots buy into this save the company from themselves mentality and work themselves into the grave. And it isn't just the early 80s hires.


It's sad. I see an awful lot of G numbers and early M numbers picking up open time. Weren't a lot of the G numbers furloughed after 9/11? You'd think they'd be a little more compassionate.
 
Yes, most all that are scabspawn are Gs, but there are a lot of Gs that aren't.

I'm on the cusp of being pushed to reserve with the EWR cut, so I end up with all the crap from PBS. God I hated 6 trips to Europe in a month, I took a RFL just to avoid the burnout and have some control over my schedule. Now with that RFL, I'm down to 3 trips a month, and I'll pick up 2 on the days that I want to work, not the days that CAL wants me to. I perfer to pick up ADVS trips, but every once in a while I'll have to grab a trip out of open time to pay the bills. Now I know that pisses off a few of the diehards, but I did my part my taking that RFL, and I'm still only working 70 hours a month.
 
Thanks for the RFL, I thought about doing the same, but I like to bid reserve and RFL sucks for Reserve.
I have no prob with you picking up opentime on the RFL days, it's the guys that do it to pad their lines... Every month this G-turd flys 6-7 IRO crossings... 9 days off and gets about 110-120hrs... Loser... But it gets better... every 3rd month he pickup 3 days trips to stay current giving up 3 more days off... He love CAL... its his life!
CAL sucks,it's just a job.... Wake up!
 

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