C525 questions

[prpjt]

We are starting to look for another aircraft to be purchased in early 2005. We currently operate a late model C90B. The principles have asked me to check into a '92 or so CJ. We're in the process of getting the generic info, but I'd like to get some feedback on some real world questions.

Typical TAS at altitude and low (low teens)

Progessive maintenance schedule, how often

Reliability? any nagging problems

Hot high performance

Hourly fuel burn, 1st , 2nd, 3rd......

Range (in hours) with with 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 pax

Baggage capacity, how tough with a couple sets of clubs.

Thanks in advance for your time. We do a lot of short trips(90 -160 miles) but do stretch out and do 600 - 900 miles several times a year, usually in the winter and westbound. Thanks again.

 

[FL350]

I can tell you that you probably wont have to worry about the third hour of fuel burn. From what I understand the range is the worst part about the plane.

 

[501261]

We do a whole bunch of 132nm trips; we’ve done them in a BE20, C525, and C560. The best airplane hands down to do that trip is the BE20. The fastest time I’ve ever done that trip was in a King Air 200 (you simply can’t slow a jet down nearly as quick) and below 10,000’ everybody’s at 250.

Jet fever certainly is a hard thing to get over, but if the majority of your trips are 200nm or less stay with the King Air.

Another thing to consider is RVSM, most of the CJ’s on the market right now do not have it, do you have the $125K budgeted to get it? You might be thinking that you don’t need it and if the majority of your trips are under 200nm you certainly don’t need RVSM, but with out RVSM your CJ will only have about 500nm range.

Questions:
Typical TAS at altitude and low (low teens).
I just used 340knots, 250 if below 10.

Progressive maintenance schedule, how often.
Phase B, every 150 hours- $2000 just a couple of hours
Phase 1-4, every 300 hours $ $30,000, about 10 days
Phase 1-5 every 1200 hours, $90,000, 18 days.
There are numerous other minor inspections, but those are the “big” ones. Obviously the big factor is discrepancy labor the actual inspections are only $700, $3000 and $31,000, if you buy a clean airplane the discrepancy labor will obviously not be as much.

Reliability? any nagging problems.
Just depends on that specific airplane, it’s a Cessna, so they’re very simply and conversely don’t have that many problems.

high performance.
Not very impressive at all, it doesn’t need a whole lot of runway, but lose an engine and you better hope there aren’t any obstacles in the way.

Range (in hours) with 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 pax
Just plan on getting down after 3 hours.

Baggage capacity, how tough with a couple sets of clubs.
Surprisingly not bad, especially if you stow the clubs in the potty. I’ve had 7 sets of clubs and bags plus the passengers and it all fit.

 

[prpjt]

Range (in hours) with 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 pax
Just plan on getting down after 3 hours.

By this am I understanding that you can load 4 pax and bags, then fly for 3 hrs? How many pax with full fuel?

One of the trips they really want to non-stop is a 920 miler to SDL in the winter. Looks like with just 50 knots of wind that puts the CJ at 3:20 trip time.

The best plane for us is the 200, but the owners definitely have 'jet on the brain' right now. They just need to hear why they don't want one.

And a huge thanks to both of you for the info.

 

[501261]

By this am I understanding that you can load 4 pax and bags, then fly for 3 hrs? How many pax with full fuel?
2/3 pax depending on what you have installed with full fuel. 3 hours means you need to be on the ground after 3 hours (if you need to shoot an approach or two or possibly hold then you now have a 2 hour airplane)

One of the trips they really want to non-stop is a 920 miler to SDL in the winter. Looks like with just 50 knots of wind that puts the CJ at 3:20 trip time.
You’re probably going to have to make a stop most of the time (this is exactly the kind of trip a BE20 can almost always nonstop). 3:20 is too long for going into SDL (you’ll very likely get some low level vectoring that eats your already low reserves). Also in order to make the CJ a 3+hour airplane you need to be above FL350, in the winter at FL350 you’ll probably have more than a 50 knot headwind.

The best plane for us is the 200, but the owners definitely have 'jet on the brain' right now. They just need to hear why they don't want one.

If a nonstop 920 nm trip is a must and they have “jet brain” consider an “older” C550, it’s considerable more airplane than the CJ, at less cost with 4 hours of fuel at 370 knots, the downside is its older and will require more MX than a C525.

 

[jeb]

I flew a 97 525 for six years and we would do SDL and LAS about eight times a year. The distance from our homebase was 1240 and 1340 nm. Going west I would plan a fuel stop about six hundred plus miles in the winter months. I would say the headwinds in the winter will keep you from making that trip nonstop in the winter and it would be very close, to close for me in the summer. My normal passenger load was two and golf clubs.Our fuel burn was 133gals the first hour 100-109 the second and depending altitude I have seen in th 90's. The CJ was a good airplane to fly and they have made improvements in the CJ2 & 3. I can't help you with low altitudes fuel burn. Our maintenance bills weren't as high as I have seen listed. We did a Phase 1-4 plus hot sections for 108,000. It depends were you take the airplane we used a authorized service center not factory. If you go the CJ route use a very reptuable broker to find you an airplane and help with the prebuy. Your insurance will run about 28,000 ++. Good Luck with your purchase.