C 210 in icing?

[umkay]

Has anyone flown a turbo 210 (with boots and hot prop) into icing conditions?

a) How much can it accumulate before you feel a difference?

b) Does it have enough umph to climb out of the conditions quickly (i.e. you get ice at 12,000, need to climb to 16,000)?

c) Pucker factor?

Um kay?

 

[Freight Dog]

I wouldn't mess with it. I used to fly for New Mexico Flying Service back in 99 when they lost a 210 in icing. The plane was not certified for known icing, but it was equipped. I just met this pilot before this flight.

Here's the NTSB report

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001212X20222&ntsbno=DEN00FA025&akey=1

 

[WrightAvia]

Yea, you better go fly with all them good pilots that fly the CRJ's, cause I can tell you right now dude, winter is coming and you aint gonna git an adult education asking questions on the internet.

Once again, some slope puts one in and some other slope shows you an NTSB link as to why you shouldn't be doing such and such a job. I'm not even going to open that link. The poster said it all. The pilot flew a un-certified plane into icing conditions (so said the poster) and the plane crashed. Let me guess...causal factors were the pilots continued flight into known icing conditions in an un-certified airplane.

Stay out of mans work boy and go get an airline job...the NECRONOMICON doesn't need your name in it.

 

[Cardinal]

LOL, Wright, that was pretty good. Think of it this way. The Caravan has power, but lots of odd clingy surfaces out in the wind. The 210 is much cleaner, but lacks the get up and go. Choose your poison. As an aside, the Flight Express guys don't toss their hands into the air, screaming in surrender as soon as the OAT drops below 2C. People occasionally die flying all types of small freighters. Decide if that risk is acceptible.

 

[WrightAvia]

Hey Cardinal, glad you got the gist of that. If you are working for an operator that has you flying a plane in 135 operations, that is not certified to be flown in icing conditions...you have the responsiblity to yourself to be the PILOT IN COMMAND and tell your boss when conditions aint right...YOU AINT GOING!!! In fact even if the plane is certified...if it's beyond your comfort level, you have to be a CAPTAIN and take the bull by the horns.

There is no real book on icing. Sometimes climbing is the best answer. Sometimes flying low is the best answer. Knowing the weather, knowing your plan "B", your personal limits and what the plane will take is golden, but that only comes with experience.

I say "M KAY" if you are on step with you flying skills and your ability to learn more about weather, to learn more about yourself as a pilot and to learn to respect the limitations of your plane...I say TAKE THE JOB. You will learn alot and you will go far. You will be the PILOT IN COMMAND. Don't ever...I say EVER...let your employer push you into flying when you know better. But also learn to know WHEN it's best not to fly vs a day when you know you CAN fly in icing with a cessna during the winter. You'll never get an answer on how to to fly single cessnas in icing conditions on the internet or a book. You my man, must go out on your own and gain that experience.

Good luck to you M KAY, whatever you decide to do.

Oooops...forgot to answer the question on pucker factor. Or did I.

 

[OtterFO]

I've never flown a 210, but I got time in a 207. My expierance gained from poor judgement, is the 207 lightly loaded will carry about 2.5" of rime. With the airplane heavy it got really fugly with an inch. I started noticing a loss of airspeed pretty early on in the collection process..

 

[Loafman]

I flew the ATR. Ice ain't nuthin to fuk wit.

 

[Freight Dog]

One thing I wanted to add... you will not last at a Part 135 cargo job flying C-210's, or any other for that matter if you don't try.

In other words, at the largest Part 135 carrier in the U.S. which is Ameriflight, we were told that IT IS OKAY to return, and they encourage you to return if you don't feel safe. What they are asking out of you is if the weather is crappy to go out there and try. It's up to you to be a safe and competent pilot making sound PIC decisions. That kind of experience will help you later on when you get to the airlines to be a good captain... just my opinion.

 

[WrightAvia]

Freight Dog, I want to appologize. I used a very wrong descriptive term for you and another pilot. I'm going to leave the post as it is in it's orginal form and just take this moment to say that I was wrong. Guess my fingers were flying faster than my brain.

I think we are all on the same concern level regarding the young pilot looking to start the 135 freight job in piston single, looking at the other responses.

Our competitor uses 207's for cargo. I don't how you could fly single pistons in air carriage in the winter, but they do. It really hits home when you have 1600 LBS of freight in a 675 HP single engine turbine and you wind up with 1/8 to 1/4 of clear ice from the back edge of the boots to the trailing edge, an instantly opaque windshield and a foot ball sized growth of ice on your brake caliper. And not to mention that you have slowed down to 120 knots and are holding level altitude with your orange triangle of your flight director on top of the command bars. Happened that same night that the Prompt Air Caravan crashed by PDC coming out of MSP. I don't think I care to even ponder being caught in those conditions with a piston single.

I got a guy sitting next to me that flew frieght in 182's, 210's, 206's ect. He said be very cautious in taking the position...just go to it with eyes wide open.

Good luck M=KAY. Let us know how you do.

 

[umkay]

Thanks all. I'm going to think long and hard (um kay) about doing this. Maybe better to just stick with bright sunny blue skies with the 210 and find a twin for the winter. But realistically, I can't see an Aztec or other light twin being a whole lot safer. Like the Seneca I fly right now, if an engine decided to explode I'm not sure the outcome is 100% groovy over the mountains at 15,000. Navajo, probably, but a max. gross weight Seneca????????? POH 1-engine numbers can be thrown out the window for the most part since these freighters get the cr@p run out of them.
Maybe grabbing the ankles at a regional wouldn't be so bad after all. Um kay.

 

[210FR8DOG]

not exactly the same situation but I flew a 210 with the IO-550 with TKS. No icing can really touch the TKS system when its working properly and you remember to turn it on!!!

flying at 4 am, ground temp was -4C so I figured its too cold for icing, right? WRONG!!!! got about a quarter inch and turned on the TKS. It takes sometimes 5 minutes or so to build up pressure if you haven't used it on that flight already. So then I get about an inch buildup and I'm losing airspeed, feeling sluggish and getting real scared. There was an airport straight below me and I was about 5 seconds from declaring an emergency and landing when finally a big patch came off the left wing about 6 inches long, then another, then another until the wings cleared off. WHHEEEEEWWWWW!!!!!! That inch built up in about 10 minutes or so. It didn't take long.

I've flown through icing just as bad but with my head out of my A$$ and the TKS turned on beforehand. No problems at all. Still........RESPECT ICE!!!

The reason I knew there was an aiport straight below is because I had a hand held GPS. GO GET ONE if you fly everyday and are expected to get the job done through rain, sleet, snow or shine.