C-130's Vs. KC-135's

[cougar6903]

Any Air Force or ANG guys have time in both the C-130 and KC-135? Which did you prefer flying? Missions? I am working on applying to a few ANG units and just wanted to get some feedback from the guys/gals that have flown both. Thanks for the help.

 

[4fans]

Cougar,

While I have never flown a -135, I do have quite a few hours in the C-130, and have a good buddy that used to be in 130s now in 135s who confirms my thoughts . . . Go with the Mighty Herk, young man!
While I do realize that 'no one kicks a$$ without tanker gas', in reality, it involves a lot of flying in big circles.
I could write a long message about the joys of flying the '4fans 'o freedom', but I think this link to a letter written by a man I am proud to call my friend, sums it up best. A little background: young "DJ" wrote a letter to a 'real' fighter type pilot looking for advice on how he could also become one. This guy passes the buck to his subordinates to respond for him. Well, Hunter takes the ball and runs with it, setting this kid straight about the true joys of flying the venerable Lockheed C-130 Hercules.
Enjoy:
http://www.sparkherd.com/humor/TACAIR.txt
I have always wondered if DJ took the advice.

 

[Foties]

Another great story of the herk!

Hey bud,

I am providing another herk perspective and of course we are all biased about the airframe we fly, but it is great to see a few perpestives and see what appeals to you. Some of my KC135 buddies love the trips they get, and locations they go to are top notch compared to most airframes. They provide an amazing service for our fighters but I have never heard any of them actually talk about loving to fly circles in the sky waiting to tie on with a fighter to expand their endurance. They provide an essential mission and I commend them for what they do. I am even considering the possibilty of getting a 135 unit but it would soley be for the where the unit is located in the country, a place where I'd love to live.

While deployed to Qatar, flying C-130 missions in support of OIF, a buddy of mine in my unit wrote this story about what it is like. It by far is one of the best and funniest stories I have ever read. A must read for all aviators:

* Caution: A very colorful pilot story *Excerpt from the forthcoming novel, "The Great Hamptini."



There I was at six thousand feet over central Iraq, two hundred eighty knots and we're dropping faster than Paris Hilton's panties. It's a typical September evening in the Persian Gulf; hotter than a rectal thermometer and I'm sweating like a priest at a Cub Scout meeting.



But that's neither here nor there. The night is moonless over Baghdad tonight, and blacker than a Steven King novel. But it's 2003, folks, and I'm sporting the latest in night-combat technology. Namely, hand-me-down night vision goggles (NVGs) thrown out by the fighter boys. Additionally, my 1962 Lockheed C-130E Hercules is equipped with an obsolete, yet, semi-effective missile warning system (MWS). The MWS conveniently makes a nice soothing tone in your headset just before the missile explodes into your airplane. Who says you can't polish a turd? At any rate, the NVGs are illuminating Baghdad International Airport like the Las Vegas Strip during a Mike Tyson fight. These NVGs are the cat's ass. But I've digressed.



The preferred method of approach tonight is the random shallow. This tactical maneuver allows the pilot to ingress the landing zone in an unpredictable manner, thus exploiting the supposedly secured perimeter of the airfield in an attempt to avoid enemy surface-to-air-missiles and small arms fire. Personally, I wouldn't bet my pink ass on that theory but the approach is fun as hell and that's the real reason we fly it.



We get a visual on the runway at three miles out, drop down to one thousand feet above the ground, still maintaining two hundred eighty knots. Now the fun starts. It's pilot appreciation time as I descend the mighty Herk to six hundred feet and smoothly, yet very deliberately, yank into a sixty degree left bank, turning the aircraft ninety degrees offset from runway heading. As soon as we roll out of the turn, I reverse turn to the right a full two hundred seventy degrees in order to roll out aligned with the runway. Some aeronautical genius coined this maneuver the " Ninety/ Two-Seventy." Chopping the power during the turn, I pull back on the yoke just to the point my nether regions start to sag, bleeding off energy in order to configure the pig for landing.



"Flaps Fifty!, Landing Gear Down!, Before Landing Checklist!" I look over at the copilot and he's shaking like a cat **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ting on a sheet of ice. Looking further back at the navigator, and even through the NVGs, I can clearly see the wet spot spreading around his crotch. Finally, I glance at my steely-eyed flight engineer. His eyebrows rise in unison as a grin forms on his face. I can tell he's thinking the same thing I am. "Where do we find such fine young men?" "Flaps One Hundred!" I bark at the shaking cat. Now it's all aimpoint and airspeed. Aviation 101, with the exception there's no lights, I'm on NVGs, it's Baghdad, and now tracers are starting to crisscross the black sky.



Naturally, and not at all surprisingly, I grease the Goodyear's on brick-one of runway 33 left, bring the throttles to ground idle and then force the props to full reverse pitch. Tonight, the sound of freedom is my four Hamilton Standard propellers chewing through the thick, putrid, Baghdad air. The huge, one hundred thirty thousand pound, lumbering whisper pig comes to a lurching stop in less than two thousand feet. Let's see a Viper do that! We exit the runway to a welcoming committee of government issued Army grunts. It's time to download their beans and bullets and letters from their sweethearts, look for war booty, and of course, urinate on Saddam's home.



Walking down the crew entry steps with my lowest-bidder, Beretta 92F, 9 millimeter strapped smartly to my side, I look around and thank God, not Allah, I'm an American and I'm on the winning team. Then I thank God I'm not in the Army.



Knowing once again I've cheated death, I ask myself, "What in the hell am I doing in this mess?" Is it Duty, Honor, and Country? You bet your ass. Or could it possibly be for the glory, the swag, and not to mention, chicks dig the Air Medal. There's probably some truth there too. But now is not the time to derive the complexities of the superior, cerebral properties of the human portion of the aviator-man-machine model. It is however, time to get out of this **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**-hole. "Hey copilot clean yourself up! And how's 'bout the 'Before Starting Engines Checklist."



God, I love this job!

 

[fr8doggie]

HERK's rule! Best guys I've ever flown with have -130 time. This plane does it all. Hauls trash, fires guns, drops bombs, you name it they do it.

Without a doubt, the finest airplane ever built is the Lockheed C-130 (J model excluded)

Good Luck!

 

[SMOE]

HERK's rule! Best guys I've ever flown with have -130 time. This plane does it all. Hauls trash, fires guns, drops bombs, you name it they do it.

Without a doubt, the finest airplane ever built is the Lockheed C-130 (J model excluded)

Good Luck!

HOORAAAHHHH!!!!!!!!

 

[Foties]

J Model Excluded, WTF

Hey bud,

I know some people see stuff on the news and by god it must be 100% fact. My advice is disregard about 50% of the crap in the news. I have flown the E, H, and J. The J will far surpasses any capability of all the prior Herc's

The J just deployed to the desert a few months ago and right now they have a 100% mission comlpletion rate. Compare that to the 70% or so to the E. Tell me what other herc can take off at max gross and still rotate to 18 degress nose high and accelerate.

Later.

40"s

 

[CMRaviator]

As was mentioned before, everyone is biased towards the airframe they flew. I've flown with several pilots that have both flown the C-130 and the KC-135; all of which say they prefer the -135. If you are in the Guard/Reserves, I would take a serious look at the missions we fly (active KC 135s is a whole different ball game). We get awesome missions: Hawaii, Mildenhall, Germany, Guam, South America, the list goes on and on (and we go nonstop while the hercs stop to refuel 10 times! j/k Nonstop to Hickam equals more time on the ground). Either way, I don't think you can go wrong either way; Unfortunately it's looking like my unit may switch to C-130s in the future. Safe flying!

 

[El Cid '95]

Thank God someone took up for the venerable Stratotanker!! I have to agree with Raviator--it's a whole different ballgame between the active duty and Guard and Reserve tankers. I flew 819 hours last year and almost all were in the desert on active duty. The Blk 40 update is amazing in the tanker. CPDLC datalink, satellite phone, and some real nice software to play with. So Cougar, since I'm trying to get into a Guard or Reserve -135 unit, I'd recommend you go for the 130s. Either way, you will not regret it.

 

[SMOE]

Hey bud,

I know some people see stuff on the news and by god it must be 100% fact. My advice is disregard about 50% of the crap in the news. I have flown the E, H, and J. The J will far surpasses any capability of all the prior Herc's

The J just deployed to the desert a few months ago and right now they have a 100% mission comlpletion rate. Compare that to the 70% or so to the E. Tell me what other herc can take off at max gross and still rotate to 18 degress nose high and accelerate.

Later.

40"s

Not wanting to start a pissing contest but did the "J" ever get certified for airdrop or are you still doing the point A to B thing?

 

[Foties]

The J is slowly getting capabilities releases

No bro,

By no means are you starting a pissing contest. The J is getting released for new things every few months. We had two guys just get back from J school at the Rock and these guys are NVG, airland, airdrop, formation, assault qualified. Nothing like landing on a 3,000 foot dirt strip completely dark wearing NVG's. The J is still very new in my book and will probably have more problems. People just are quick to judge a new plane as a Piece of Sh%$ when it has some problems. Look at the C-17, it had problems initially and is now the best airlifter in the world for the mission. See ya.

40's

 

[pkober]

As a ANG pilot my whole career I can give you some good advice.

TAKE THE FIRST PILOT SLOT YOU GET. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU FLY IN THE GUARD, JUST A LONG AS YOU FLY.​

DON'T PASS UP A TANKER FOR A HERC OR A HERC FOR A FIGHTER. I'D RATHER FLY A HERC OR A TANKER THAN BE SITTING ON THE SIDELINE ONLY WISHING I HAD TAKEN A SLOT.

Just my two cents.

Good Luck

CLAMBAKE

 

[JungleJett]

Ok...I have to jump in an add my kudo's for the mighty Herk. In fact,flew a NVG low level to an actual (air drop) last night and itwas a beautiful night to fly. The illumination was a bit high but inthe back of the airplane...it is always dark! She is a wonderfulairplane with a wonderful mission. Best in the inventory.

Fotes, I thought that Herk story was from a Marine? And Baghdad onNVG's? When was that? And I assume landing on the northern most runway?If my memory serves me, it was later in the war when the runway'sstarting being used. We were using the taxiway/ramp on south side of15R/33L and did it in overt lighting. And we never did random shallowsinto Baghdad (J262), although maybe we should have sometimes. I thinkthis story is a bit dressed up....but that is my opinion.

As to the J model having a 100% MCR. And comparing it to an airplanethat is over 40 years old in some cases is a bit unfair. The E's andH's carried the bulk of the airlift missions into Iraq and had a muchbetter than 70% MCR. In fact, while we were there, our unit (KYANG) hadthe best MCR in theater for a while. The only J's there were the Brits.(BTW, they call the "older" Herks, the "Classics"!) I think the J willfind its way, eventually but you will still see the E's and H's carrythe load for a long time to come. When the X mod comes out, there willbe a merging of the "classic" fleet. The "J" is an impressive airplaneand will be accepted into the fold when she is full up mission qual.

What exactly is the C-17's mission? Is she a Strat or Tac lifter? Asquadron mate of mine was on an ALCE team in Pakistan during thefighting over there and they were not impressed with the C-17. He saidthey left quite a bit of cargo on the ramp so they could fill up on gasto get back to Germany. They too are a good airplane with some teethingproblems.

The Herk is the $hit anyway you look at it! After 2700 hours of beingtossed around in her droaning along at 300 kts....I still love her.

 

[Foties]

Just can't believe everything you hear/read

Jett,

I got over there in July 2003 and did about 120 days on and off thereafter. As far as that story, a Major in my unit, as well as a Southwest FO wrote that story while we deployed there at that time. He sent it out to a few friends and before you knew it it was coming back around saying it was written by a Miramar Marine Herk guy. For one the real author has a copyright on the story and is writing a book on it. Secondly read the details of the story. Miramar MCAS does not have C-130E's like the story describes. I have a great friend that flies Herks down at NAS Miramar and he says they don't even fly a mission described in the story. He flies KC-130's and does mainly refueling.

Yes they did open up the main runways into Baghdad. We did mainly NVG approaches to 25L and they did not have overt lights, just lights extremely low. Random Steeps quickly went away after so many dangerous things kept occuring if you know what I mean. The SPINS have you adhere to altitude restrictions but let's just say they have to be disregarded at times to protect yourself, hence going in barely in the weeds to an airfield.

I agree with your rational about comparing 40 year planes to brand new ones. Sorry to sound unfair. I guess I get frustrated when people blast the best Herk ever made with uncredible informaton, like talking to a Liberal I guess. See you around and good luck out there. Say hi to your co-pilot Steve for me.

Foties.

 

[Grizz]

Absolutely the best airplane I've ever flown was the Herc. I'd trade my current Citation X for a Herc in a nanosecond.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

Need I say more.

 

[chawbein]

As a ANG pilot my whole career I can give you some good advice.

TAKE THE FIRST PILOT SLOT YOU GET. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU FLY IN THE GUARD, JUST A LONG AS YOU FLY.​

DON'T PASS UP A TANKER FOR A HERC OR A HERC FOR A FIGHTER. I'D RATHER FLY A HERC OR A TANKER THAN BE SITTING ON THE SIDELINE ONLY WISHING I HAD TAKEN A SLOT.

Just my two cents.

Good Luck

CLAMBAKE

THIS GUY FREAKIN' NAILED IT!

I was asked in my interview (for the mighty Stratotanker) what my first choice was, as far as aircraft/unit. I answered my first choice was the -135 and here. My reason for that answer is that my first choice is whoever I'm interviewing with. Fire off the apps to every unit you might be interested in and take whichever picks you up first.

 

[JungleJett]

Hey,

I left in July for an injury. Good to hear it was an AF guy who wrote the story and not some Marine I will look forward to the book.

J models....California I assume. We had your AG as a commander. Ifland..good dude...hell he got me off base for two nights when my girlfriend (now wife) came over to see me in Dubai.

I think you meant to say 15L. As to things that bite in the night..yeah I know what you mean.

As to the best Herk ever made...maybe when they work everything out on her. Until then, I will keep the "classics"! Any way you look at it..if your not in a Herk..your a Jerk.

Load Clear!

Jett,

I got over there in July 2003 and did about 120 days on and off thereafter. As far as that story, a Major in my unit, as well as a Southwest FO wrote that story while we deployed there at that time. He sent it out to a few friends and before you knew it it was coming back around saying it was written by a Miramar Marine Herk guy. For one the real author has a copyright on the story and is writing a book on it. Secondly read the details of the story. Miramar MCAS does not have C-130E's like the story describes. I have a great friend that flies Herks down at NAS Miramar and he says they don't even fly a mission described in the story. He flies KC-130's and does mainly refueling.

Yes they did open up the main runways into Baghdad. We did mainly NVG approaches to 25L and they did not have overt lights, just lights extremely low. Random Steeps quickly went away after so many dangerous things kept occuring if you know what I mean. The SPINS have you adhere to altitude restrictions but let's just say they have to be disregarded at times to protect yourself, hence going in barely in the weeds to an airfield.

I agree with your rational about comparing 40 year planes to brand new ones. Sorry to sound unfair. I guess I get frustrated when people blast the best Herk ever made with uncredible informaton, like talking to a Liberal I guess. See you around and good luck out there. Say hi to your co-pilot Steve for me.

Foties.