Buying 135 SIC Flight Time?

[TurboS7]

Trade???

Dan,
I work for a great charter company on the 737-800, I fly all over the world and do some great things. My whole drive in getting into aviation was to fly as a missionary with JAARS or Mission Aviation Fellowship. After finishing up at LeTourneau College I started up a Part 135 out of Chicago. I was blessed to meet a wonderful girl with the Murk Family Musical, eventually we got married. I ran the Part 135 during the week then flew the Murks around on weekends. My dream was for us to go with JAARS and return to Colombia where my Mom and Dad and my sister Brenda and Chet Bitterman were serving as missionaries. Everthing was on track then Chet was kidnapped by the M-19 then after 6 horriable weeks they shot him in the heart and hung the body up on the primero de Mayo in Bogota.
Everyone in my family left Colombia after that happened and my dream went with it. I kept on with the Part 135 hiring guys out of Moody,Letourneau. The business gave them a chance to pay their school bills and then get the flying time needed to accomplish their goals. I would hire them with an A+P and 500 hours. Eventually I got burned out and moved to Florida as a short term missionary with MAF, that lasted one year.
At that point my life totally changed I got into the real aviation world. Lot's of time away from the family, and a lot of time away from church and all the other things. It is not everything it is cracked up to be, I have spent 5 months totally away from my family this year. I have 7 kids. My wife did come to visit while I was away but I couldn't afford the kids. The bottom line is what has more eternal value, flying or youth ministry. I would give up anything to be involved in youth ministry, that is something that will last for eternity. This flying stuff, its great, I love it, but once I pass on my logbook won't go anywhere.
While I had the 135 I used to fly Bibles to Mexico, and Central America, that was the greatest flying I have ever done. I have always dreamed of living in New Mexico, I love ABQ, you want to trade? I get to keep the wife though. Dave

 

[AWACoff]

To put my money where my mouth is ("there are tons of CFI jobs"), the local FBO in Green Bay, Wisconsin just hired some 300TT grad from ERAU. Plus there are operators advertising for CFIs on www.climbto350.com right now. I just looked! You are in a much better position to land one of those jobs than ANY of the furloughed pilots. The operator knows you HAVE to stay for a while...the furloughed guys and gals are gone the moment they get recalled. I have found that the best way to get a job is to be the loudest voice. You need to fax, fax, fax...call, call, call...Heck, go visit and drop off a resume in person to the chief pilot (I did all that myself and got hired at Great Lakes with less time than you have...and that was without knowing anybody at the company, just tenacity). The jobs will go to the person who wants it the most. Good LUCK!!!

 

[Wiggums]

"I see lots of job opportunities for CFIs"

CFI work? I love instructing. I can honestly say I am an excellent instructor (mostly because I like to do it and could care less about moving on to something else--yeah, can give excellent references there). But I haven't been able to find jiggity jack squat on that front. The place I used to work as a CFI has five new airplanes since September and they are doing a very brisk business, but are under a new chief CFI and nobody I worked with is still there. No dice.

If you haven't called or visited all the flight schools in a fifty mile radius from your home I would say that you haven't even begun searching for a CFI job. Nothing in your immediate area? Expand your search, because there are schools looking for CFIs. If you're really such a super-duper person, and have some dual given you should be able to find work as an instructor. Like the above poster said, most schools have a fat stack of resumes, but they are only looking for people not on furlough, which gives you the advantage.

 

[bobbysamd]

Finding CFI work

Once again, there's never a "good" time for pilot hiring. Even in the best of times, there are always many, many more qualified applicants for what are really a miniscule number of jobs. Just the same, that doesn't mean you cannot be one of the fortunate ones who find a job.

Work up a resume and print tons of them. Then spam every FBO and flight school in your area. Get in your car and hand-deliver a resume to every Chief Instructor within sight. Print some business cards and hand them to everyone you know. Timing is everything in this business. Follow up on your contacts (nicely). You show up at the right place and the right time and you'll get your chance.

Really, getting the first flying job is no different than getting a first job in any other business. You have to be persistent. Once someone takes a chance on you, getting subsequent jobs will be easier. In other words, once you're in, you're in. Getting "in" is hard.

Good luck with your job search.

PS-How come you can't reapply to your old school and to the new Chief Instructor?

 

[hawkerjet]

I don't know where you live but there are pipe line patrol, powerline patrol, state survey, etc, etc, types of flying jobs available to you can use these jobs as a way to build time. Just remember, in these times you are not lucky to be working but very fortunate. You'll be there soon

 

[YV-135C]

beating the dead horse

There is more than one way to PFT. You guys seem to think that the only way to PFT is by taking someone else's job.The truth is that there are programs out there that put the pilot in the right seat of an airplane without taking someone else's job. Not all SIC programs are worthless. Some provide actual flight line experience in weather conditions in which a lower time pilot might not normally fly in due to lack of experiecnce, or whatever other reason. This is invaluable stuff. If it's not taking another person's job ( SIC in aircraft that don't require SIC for example), then wouldn't you rather get actual operating experiece that is more challenging and affordable in higher performance airplanes rahter that putting around the patch in a 152 for the zillionth time with your nervous first time student doing touch and go's while trying not to fall asleep??

I know w couple of folks who have gone through SIC programs like the ones I am talking about. These same folks were also CFI's who insisted that the experience they paid for ( NOT TAKING ANOTHER PERON's JOB, MIND YOU) was 1000 times ore beneficial than the time they spent being CFI at their local flight schools..

i can probably predict how you guys will respond to this ,with your "pay your dues " attitudes..Remember that just because you paid your dues one way doesn't mean that that is THE ONLY WAY....

just beating the dead horse....

YV-135C

 

[Timebuilder]

I'll smack that pony one more time, and I'll agree that there is some value in what you have said. I am thankful, however, that I get that right seat experience while being PAID, and not having to pay FOR it.
I see warning flags when someone is providing a valuable service, even when acting as an "assistant" in a single pilot certified aircraft, and being asked to pay for the privilege of providing that service. If someone were to do that, then they would be taking my job, such as it is when I am not instructing, and I would be poorer both in experience and cash.

I'm certain that my arrangement is somewhat unique, and I consider it to be a blessing. The part 91 legs have been a real asset to me, since I could never afford to rent this aircraft.

Airnet and BankAir have sic programs that will provide money for a hot dog or two per day, enough to keep you alive. I'd start looking there before paying for the services you will perform, such as gear, radio, second pair of eyes, additional situational awareness, cargo handling, cabin cleaning, chart and checklist handling, etc.

Just exhaust the other options, first.

 

[TurboS7]

I vowed years ago that I would never work for free-unless a missionary or non-profit venture- and NEVER,NEVER pay for work. I was flying Aztec when others were flying jets, but I got my chance. Jet are a lot easier to fly anyway.

 

[YV-135C]

buying sic time

time builder


The guys I have flown with have never given me the backburner duties ...Most of them are stoked to have someone else fly the plane for them while they do the paper work or just rest their eyes and brains for a little while. We trade legs during the day, and sometimes they let me fly all the legs. Most everyone I know who has done this program, including my CFI friends, have had similar experiences. Sure , it would be nice to get paid for it. If i could then I would...know what I mean??
The traditional stages one climbs before landing that first good job as a pilot for a 135 or 121 operator can vary more than the norm seems to be open to. Being a CFI is not for everyone. real 135 operating experience, real weather decisions, in real high performance airplanes , is worth more to me than most of what I learned renting airplanes and flying around and shooting approaches and xcountry flying by myself. THis way i learn from pilots with more experience, i am challenged by going flying in dodgyweather conditions that i might elect not to go flying in to challenging airports in the mountains (for example) if i was doing a part 91 flight on my own. ......
so. It has more value than you and many others who share your limited opinion have given it credit for.

any questions?

YV-135C

 

[Timebuilder]

First, I hope those guys are stoked to have you fly the plane only on part 91, non-revenue legs, as your flying during the actual 135 operation would be completely illegal. Read the regs. Only the part 135 pilots can manipulate the flight controls during that portion of the flight.

My only other comment would be an observation: they are apparently more valuable to you than you are to them. Why not check the sic programs I mentioned, and get paid the money and respect you no doubt deserve? Wouldn't that be an even better situation?

One other thing. When you are being paid, the back burner duties become a source of pride, part of a job well done. I have picked up valuable customer relations skills, for example. In addition, things like filing flight plans and copying clearances, briefing the pilot on weather and pireps, runway lengths, and services on field are a source of satisfaction. These are all parts of the professional pilot experience.

No one wants to deny you the opportunity to get ahead. I think it need not be done without being paid for your valuable contributions.