Buy a plane?

[s0ldier93]

Just wondering what the general thoughts are on buying planes after achieving a PPL to complete training and build hours for a few years.

I am considering purchasing an IFR certified (or close) 152. I understand what type investment I'd be getting into financially. My question is, would I be looked down upon by potencial employers for training and building hours this way? That is, as opposed to the many flight schools and safety programs.

 

[jdog78]

I think employers would be impressed by the fact that you own your own airplane. Anyone can go to an FBO or flight school and buy their time and ratings. It takes talent, though, to buy and maintain your own aircraft, and that will count for something eventually.
Buying an aircraft can also be a good investment, as long as it is well maintained. I would say do it...i know I would if I had it to do over again!

-j

 

[s0ldier93]

jdog78-

Thanks for the input. I didn't think of it from that point of view. I was thinking that it might be looked upon as a poor way gain hours.

 

[350DRIVER]

s0ldier93,

I do not think that the purchase of the aircraft will have any adverse or negative effects down the line when you go to interview. I personally have a few friends that did the same as you are contemplating and one is currently at Flight Options and the others are 121 present day. Remember you need to also consider what type of "experience" that will be gained by doing this, it is my opinion that is more than just a "flight time" issue. I would take the route that gives you the best possible way to gain the valuable experience. You may also want to consider going into a flying club where you would have a 1/3 share or so.

good luck,

3 5 0

 

[s0ldier93]

Thanks for the added encouragement 350DRIVER. It's no longer seeming like a crazy idea. . . . . IFR 152's seem to come in between 17-22k. that's doable.

If it helps anyone else, I just picked up this great book.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0070681589/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-5890723-3239924#reader-link

There's allot of good information for lowtimers like me

 

[tataki]

IFR 152's seem to come in between 17-22k. that's doable.

In Pretty good shape? where did you see those s0ldier93.

 

[ummkai]

owning

Owning your own airplane is a fantastic experience! You will learn more about FARs (as they apply to maintenance) than you ever dreamed was imaginable......

But let me rain on the parade a bit.... the initial cost of the aircraft is a small percentage of the ownership cost. I have owned two airplanes of my own - a C-172 and a Citabria. I would suggest that if you have to take a loan for the purchase, don't do it. The monthly owner costs, in addition to the loan payment, become pretty cumbersome.

An annual inspection on a C-152 can easily run 2K. Insurance (hull & liability) can also run around 2K (especially for a low time pilot). Then theres hanger costs, engine maintenance, avionics repairs, oil changes, brake pads, tires, etc.

Theres a lot of things you can't do as an owner. Anything having to do with the airframe and engine are off limits (except for oil changes & spark plugs). Any avionics repairs have to be performed by and signed off by a technician. Even carpet or mats in the airplane have to be FAA arrpoved.

True Story: Once the nose sump on my C-172 was sticking open after doing the preflight fuel strain. Turned out that a small metal spring that help tention on the plunger was bad. The local hardware store had a spring of exactly the same size for about 2 dollars. However, in order to keep the plane legally airworthy, I had to use the FAA certified part, which cost almost $100! And I had to have an A&P install it. The whole thing cost me about $250.

On one of the annuals, it was found that my C-172 had 2 cracked cycliners. The engine had less than 900 hours since it's last overhaul. The repair of those two jugs cost me over 3K.

Aircraft maintenance is VERY costly. I would never try to talk anyone out of owning their own plane - I'll own another one someday - just be careful of all the additional costs. Much more expensive than buying a second car or a boat.

Depending on the number of hours you plan to fly in a given year, renting at the local FBO actually works out to be a cheaper per hour deal. And clubs are about the best option.

Good luck. Airplane ownership is rewarding, but it can break you if you aren't prepared.....

 

[s0ldier93]

tataki -

http://www.global-air.com/
http://www.vickiofvermont.com/vicki/

I can say much about the shape of them, but these are two of the sites I've looked at. . . . . . .Anyone have any experience with these guys?

ummkai-

Thank you for the words of caution. In my recent studies I've learned that the maintenance cost can easily outwiegh everything else. I hope to find an A&P that will let me assist as much as possible while making repairs and doing annuals. I've been talking to the one at my flight school about doing just that. We'll see how that works out.

The planes I'm looking at (152/Cheroke 140 range) are in the under 20K. The plan is (was?) to have at least half of that cash on hand, get a loan for the entire amount, and use the onhand money to augment paments and be there for unexpected maintenance. Does the sound resonable? I was thinking that doing the loan thing instead of waiting a little over twice the time to save the entire amount would help spread the cost. Please let me know how far off base I am.

Last thing is, my initial plan is to use it to strictly for trainig and hour building. Light travel will of coarse happen, but unless I get really attached to it (possible right?), I'm thinking I'll only have it for 2 years before selling.

 

[English]

I bought my first airplane when I had around 80 hours. It was a Cessna Hawk XP, a great little airplane. I went in with two partners. It was a fantastic experience - no scheduling conflicts at all. I was never looked down upon for building my flight time in my own airplane. My two partners rarely flew the airplane, but they covered 2/3rds of the fixed costs of ownership. It was a sweet deal. It allowed me to do Angel Flight missions easily and last-minute. I also flew 70+ Young Eagles in it. Because it was my airplane, and not a rental, I could fly wherever I wanted for however long I wanted.

Owning that airplane made for great interview stories. There is definitely not a downside in the eyes of an interviewer in building your flight time in your own aircraft. In fact, you might be viewed as being more committed to aviation and a flying career if you do this.

 

[tataki]

Thank you Soldier
I am also seriously thinking about buing my own airplane after i finish my ifr rating. I am willing to put everything on it. I am already leaving my apartment and renting a room, i am going to sell most of my furniture etc....

I just wish i could find one or two parter to do it with me.

 

[s0ldier93]

wow

Well, my fears of negativeness in job hunting just went out of the window. Thanks for all of the great advice guys.

I'm not sure I want a partner though. Unexpected maintenance will always be a bear, but I think I can still handle most of the costs of a 152 or the like on my own (with my wife's help). especially knowing that I'll always want to be flying somewhere
I truely believe that if I could afford the gas and oil, I'd be in the air every day that's flyable.

I further think that I might start shopping around at the local airports (PVG, CPK, JGG) to see if I can find one I can look at.

 

[goaliemn]

Have you looked into buying into a flying club? Gives you fractional ownership at a fraction of the cost. I bought into a club with 5 planes (2 172s 2 182-RGs 1 Cirrus SR20) for $3500. Montly dues for insurance/hangar are about $80, and the per hour is $49-80/hr wet depending on the plane.

 

[jspilot]

I own a 1961 Cessna 172B. It has been a great experience for myself. I am in partnership with an older guy that flies just for recreational purposes. It is a great time builder. Insurance is only 800 dollars a year which is not to bad. It has been great for me. Just find a plane that is in good shape. Have an A&P check it out before buy the plane. That is my 2 cents.

 

[s0ldier93]

goaliemn-

I've thought about clubs. I haven't looked very hard but the few I've seen in my area weren't looking for new members. Question, in your club, are you able to fly whenever you like with reasonable notice?

jspilot-

800 a year? Is the the average? I am still under 100 hours. Would I be able to find a rate like that? Or is it the partnership that brings it down?

 

[goaliemn]

goaliemn-

I've thought about clubs. I haven't looked very hard but the few I've seen in my area weren't looking for new members. Question, in your club, are you able to fly whenever you like with reasonable notice?

I haven't had any major problems. They also do all the scheduling online so you just fire up a web browser and you select the plane you want.

I'd say 95% of the time when I want to go flying, I can go. There's usually a plane available for immediate flight. i.e. at work, weather is nice.. check the website, pick a plane and go for an afternoon flight.

Best thing to do is see if they'll show you the schedule for the last month or 2. Thats what I did. Someone logged into the scheduling site and printed out acouple of months of schedules.

 

[de727ups]

152's

I owned about 5 different 150/152's and for every $1500 annual, there has been two that were only $500. Expect your first annual to be expensive as your IA fixes things that the last guy let go. One the other hand, if I didn't have a few high dollar annuals once in a while, I'd figure my mechanic was skipping over too many things. Anyhow...I just wanted to point out that not every annual is gonna cost you 2K...unless you take it to an expensive shop.

I don't know why any potential employer would look down on personal aircraft time...I've never heard of such a problem.

You could use your plane to instruct in once you get your CFI, too.

Finding a mechanic who will trade for flight time/instruction time is great...if you find such a person, take good care of them and they will can save you a lot of money and keep your plane in tip-top shape.

Don't forget to check ebay. I just saw a high engine time Tramahawk go for 14K.

 

[s0ldier93]

goaliemn-

I thanks. I'll consider the club thing a little further. I have to say though, I'm starting to like the idea of getting a small plane of my own. It's starting to bring back thoughts i had when i got my first car.

de727ups-

5-152's? Sounds like you're the person to talk to when i run into something. I have a few friends that are A&P's talked to them a few times about "test flights" around the time of maintenance. There are a number of $100 hamburger sites in the area. I'll foot the bill for lunch if it will help me save on repairs.

 

[goaliemn]

goaliemn-

I thanks. I'll consider the club thing a little further. I have to say though, I'm starting to like the idea of getting a small plane of my own. It's starting to bring back thoughts i had when i got my first car.

OH yeah. I agree. I used to think like that until I got into the club and started seing all the bills.. fuel, insurance, hangar, annuals, other assorted repairs, etc.. It adds up very quickly.

www.yankeeflyingclub.org has the bylaws and rules of the club I'm in. Check out any rules and regs of any club you get into.

 

[rltoma]

It is kinda nice, as a renter, to be able to walk away from a problem with an aircraft and just fly a different one. Not to mention that once you start flying more powerfull airplanes, you may not want to fly a 152 anymore.

 

[tataki]

Anyone knows a very good flying Club around San Francisco and the bay area?