Busted Adiz again??

[gfvalvo]

Well...in a straightline...I'm pretty sure Delaware to Ohio = going through the ADIZ.

If the media reports are correct, they were going from Wilmington, DE to Defiance, OH.
KILG..KDFI takes you well north of the ADIZ

Greg

 

[paulsalem]

Anyone find it odd that the police sent an email out to evacuate?

 

[transpondersoff]

I don't know if the kingair had passengers on board or not. It is possible there were passengers who pressured the pilots into not waiting for a ground stop to go anyway and the pilots couldn't get any higher. The other problem is that you can't fly over top the ADIZ vfr because the ADIZ goes up to 18,000 right up to class A airspace. So possibly trying to please impatient passengers and getting painted into a corner by weather and TFR airspace, one can easily see how the ADIZ can be violated.

The possibility of launching VFR into weather that may have to be deviated around and a ADIZ violation will not look good for the pilot. I see a careless and wreckless violation coming. On a side note, if the passengers were pressuring the pilot to not wait for a groundstop because they had to get to Ohio did they get there in time anyway? No, the plane was forced to land in Winchester VA and I am certain they were detained while an investigation was completed. This all is speculation on my part, but it would explain why a professional crew would allow themselves to be painted into a corner. Passenger pressure has killed many, look no further than the accident in Aspen.

 

[Flying Illini]

transpondersoff,
Pax pressure has killed before. Why haven't professional crews learned to just say "no." Remember, learn from other's mistakes b/c you won't live long enough to make them all yourself. IF what you are suggesting is what happened, the crew had other options. They should have re-evaluated once they made the decision to launch VFR. They should have noted the ADIZ location and said, OK, we will go North, around the ADIZ before turning East. Wait, there is wx to the north, ok, I guess we can't do that. "Sorry pax, we're just going to have to wait out the wx, the situation is as follows, t-storms to the north, ADIZ (which we're not allowed to fly in) to the east and south.
When will people stop letting their pax govern how, when, and where they fly?! How many more people have to be injured, violated, killed, etc before we, as pilots, see the light?

 

[gfvalvo]

I don't get it

So possibly trying to please impatient passengers and getting painted into a corner by weather and TFR airspace, one can easily see how the ADIZ can be violated.

Fine, a reasonable scenario. But regardless of the reason, this brings up a question I had following the last ADIZ bust. Why do so many pilots seem to not use VFR Advisories (flight following)? I talk-and-squawk on almost every VFR flight. It's a no-brainer, especially in areas with complex airspace. It gives me:

* Extra set of eyes watching for traffic - yes, I know traffic avoidance is still MY responsibility and it's on a controller workload-permitting basis.

* Quick communications in an emergency. They already know who I am, where I am and where I'm going. Gives the SAR guys a pretty good idea where to start looking.

* Can usually get a quick IFR clearance if the WX turns to crap.

* Might just get a timely warning before I violate some airspace.

So, what's the down side? What's a good reason not to use this service?

 

[9GClub]

You guys are making it sound like illegitimately busting the thing was inevitable. I fly inside the ADIZ and haven't left the pattern yet, but I need an ADIZ flight plan and a Mode C every time. For a -350 (or anything for that matter) cutting through, isn't it just a question of calling Potomac approach, telling 'em your intentions, and asking for a squawk? It sounds like the bottom line-- for this most recent aircraft and for almost 100% of the previous cases-- is that people just don't know where the heck they are. If they DO know where they are, they should also know that, among the good old ones like "Don't take off without visually checking your tanks" and "Don't get low and slow and skid your turn to final", they should pay attention to what the heck they're doing over Washington of all places. And P-40 too, that's another classic one.

In related news-- I don't have a GPS setup yet-- does anybody (Garmin, Lowrance or whatever software companies might be applicable) have a mapping program that outlines the ADIZ? As in here's the bright yellow (or red or chartreuse or whatever lights your fire) line.... compadre..... WHICH YOU MAY NOT CROSS WITHOUT GETTING YOUR ACT TOGETHER? I'm sure something like that is out there, but if not it couldn't hurt.

 

[KigAir]

Bush was moved from the residence to an undisclosed location, McClellan said. During the last alert first lady Laura Bush was moved to a secure location within the White House complex.

Funny. Move the man leave the woman.

 

[FN FAL]

Pax pressure has killed before. Why haven't professional crews learned to just say "no."...
..."Sorry pax, we're just going to have to wait out the wx, the situation is as follows, t-storms to the north, ADIZ (which we're not allowed to fly in) to the east and south.

When will people stop letting their pax govern how, when, and where they fly?! How many more people have to be injured, violated, killed, etc before we, as pilots, see the light?

You're assuming that the plane was professionaly flown because it's a King Air?

Hahahah...I know a guy that flies his own King Air 300 and he's not professional, but the CFI he lets tag along, IS. Sometimes the co-captain goes down with the ship as well.

 

[Flying Illini]

You're assuming that the plane was professionaly flown because it's a King Air?

Hahahah...I know a guy that flies his own King Air 300 and he's not professional, but the CFI he lets tag along, IS. Sometimes the co-captain goes down with the ship as well.

My scenario and subsequent rant was more or less based upon the scenario that transpondersoff layed out stating that IF there were pax on board. My thoughts are that IF you have pax on board you had better be operating in a professional manner.

Either way, the fact that he busted the ADIZ makes him no better than the guys in the 152 that did it last month.

 

[Milkdud99]

If i was the guy, i would turned off my transponder and tried to race the F-16's.... the King woulda won!!

JK JK

 

[Phoenix45]

Hey look at it from the intercept pilot's point of view. At least this one was a little faster air speed than the last.

Cessna: 100-120 knots
F/A-18 w/ full flaps: 100 knots in slow flight. (not sure about an F-16

It is a little easier for them to shadow a King Air