Bush vs Kerry

[jarhead]

ShawnC

That's too bad. I always like to have a sample ballot, and then can look at the various candidate's positions and voting record if they're an incumbent. During the last election, I was able to get the sample ballot a few weeks ahead of the election off the Internet. I can't recall where it came from, or what group put it up, but it was valuable. I too, live in a small town with not much for a local paper, so the only thing covered well were the offices for state and federal office. Not much about my local aldermen, school board, tax levies or special propositions. I see what you mean now, about an absentee ballot givng you access to who is running for less well known races, Judges, etc.

 

[I Hate Freight]

I'm in a union...I'll vote for the candidate with a D next to his name

That's it? If I'm in a union, I'll vote for the person with an R next to his or her name. I am not a one issue voter.

I HATE FREIGHT

 

[I Hate Freight]

I can just see the headlines: Rehnquist court throws out all votes from California, Washington, Oregon, Ohio, Wisconsin, New York, Massachusetts, Illinois, New Mexico, and Florida. Presidency is awarded to Bush with 5% of the vote.

Let's see... Bush won the first count, Bush won the automatic recount, Bush won the third count, the US SC puts an end to the fourth selective recount ordered by the all left-wing liberal FL SC in four heavily democrat counties ONLY, all the while the Gwhore team was trying to get military absentee ballots THROWN OUT because Liberals HATE the Military. Oh, but Bush stole the election!

Election Stats

Counties won by Gore: 677
Counties won by Bush: 2,434

Population of counties won by Gore: 127 million
Population of counties won by Bush: 143 million

Square miles of country won by Gore: 580,000
Square miles of country won by Bush: 2,427,000

States won by Gore: 20
States won by Bush: 30

Average Murder per 100,000 residents in counties won by Gore: 13.2
Average Murder per 100,000 residents in counties won by Bush: 2.1

I HATE FREIGHT!

 

[TWA Dude]

I Hate Freight:

I just love it when when Bushies post those stats and conveniently omit the fact that more people in this country voted for Gore than Bush. You can try to make it seem like it's irrelevant but you'll fail. Yes, I'm aware of the electoral process which allows for a candidate to lose the popular vote yet win the election. We live in a democracy but it isn't a perfect one.

It's my sincere hope that whomever wins the popular vote this November wins the election.

Dude

Anyone But Bush!

p.s. in the Missouri gubernatorial election I voted for a deceased Democrat over (now attorney general) Ashcroft -- not out of sympathy but because I knew who'd do a better job.

 

[Timebuilder]

You can try to make it seem like it's irrelevant but you'll fail.

I'm glad you appended that comment with an observation of how US election law works. Bottom line: Bush is the legal president, having won the election according to law. No amount of whining will change that.

As far as voting for a dead person, I can only imagine what that says about you as a partisan political animal.

On second thought, I don't want to imagine that.

 

[TWA Dude]

As far as voting for a dead person, I can only imagine what that says about you as a partisan political animal.

Ooh, I just love being labeled! I think it says a lot when a poster chooses to label (denigrate) his dissenters rather than provide any meaningful counterpoints.

Dude

 

[bart]

I will just say that voting for a dead person is quite a protest, but not a very practical idea. It speaks volumes about how one probably puts emotional statements ahead of well reasoned, thought through actions.

I also notice that none of the democrats and liberals responded to the employment stats I posted earlier in the thread.

As I suspected, when confronted with facts, liberals and democrats:

1) Start screaming

2) Change the subject (they used that one here)

or 3) Call you a racist.

Anything but an unemotional look at the facts.

 

[TWA Dude]

I will just say that voting for a dead person is quite a protest, but not a very practical idea.

It wasn't a protest vote. The deceased Democrat won and his Democrat wife was appointed in his place. I had no idea who would actually be appointed but I knew s/he would be a better choice than Ashcroft.

Dude

 

[Timebuilder]

Ooh, I just love being labeled! I think it says a lot when a poster chooses to label (denigrate) his dissenters rather than provide any meaningful counterpoints.

Oh, I see now.

Voting for a dead person qualifies you as worthy of intelligent discourse.

I don't think so.

It qualifies you as a mind numbed liberal, just as I once was. I wouldn't call anyone a name that I could not myself relate to in my experience.

 

[kevdog]

I think the Republicans on this site should each give $10 to the flightinfo fund if Kerry wins, and vice versa with the Democrats/Liberals/Commies etc. if Bush wins.

Enough wasted space already!

Go fly an airplane or play with yourself or something.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Democrats/Liberals/Commies

........you said it, not me.

 

[kevdog]

........you said it, not me.

Sorry, I forgot to add Republicans/Fascists

 

[surplus1]

(only a heartbeat away....)

Wow! I can no more contemplate Ms. Rice being a heartbeat away from the presidency than I can comtemplate Ms. Clinton being the president. You guys are incredible.

 

[Timebuilder]

I can see Condi as a double-shot first black/woman president.

She would get my vote.

 

[surplus1]

Originally posted by jarhead

Prediction
I believe it will all be decided in Florida (once more, into the breach....) Florida is still a "yellow" state, trying to decide whether it will be "blue" or "red"

You are very correct. However, don't forget that the incumbent's brother is still the Govenor of Florida. What happened before, could very well happen again.

all the while the Gwhore team was trying to get military absentee ballots THROWN OUT because Liberals HATE the Military.

Sorry, but that is unadulterated garbage. Yes, there was an effort to exclude absentee ballots, ballots that did not comply with the laws of the State. Yes, a great many of them came from the military. As a matter of fact, there were thousands in my County alone, that did not comply with State law, but that were nevertheless admitted and counted, because they came from the military.

I don't hate the military. I have served honorably in the military in time of war. However, being in the military currently does not and should not entitle you to an illegal absentee ballot/vote. I am no longer in the military and my vote is not of lesser value than the vote of a person on active military duty. If my absentee ballot is thrown out for failure to comply with the law, then a ballot from a military absentee that does not comply with the law should also be thrown out. That did not happen and the illegal ballots were counted, thousands of them. The military is not entitled to "preferential" voting and neither is anyone else.

Additionally, "lists of voters", absentee, were accessed illegally, in offices controlled by Republican officials, by operatives of the Republican party in violation of Florida election law. Nevertheless, the court, headed by a Republican judge, allowed this and allowed the illegal absentee ballots. The case was not appealed.

Oh, but Bush stole the election!

Sadly he did. Thanks to a series of highly questionable procedures employed by the Florida State Police, the Commissioner of Elections, the Govenor and the courts of the State of Florida.

I agree that a recount of selected counties was inappropriate and support the SC decision to prevent that. However, the SC did not need to prevent a recount and thereby appointed a president by a 5-4 majority, it needed to mandate a proper recount throughout the State no matter how long it took.

I don't particularly like Al Gore and I am not a registered Democrat, but I expect and demand fair elections. Fair to Mr. Gore and equally fair to Mr. Bush. By the way, I happen to be a resident of the State of Florida and what we had was little better than a third-world country. It stank to high heaven.

Bush didn't "win" the State of Florida. With the help of his brother and other party operatives in official capacities, along with a partisan judiciary in the right courts, and a police force that denied many citizens access to the polls, Bush "took" the State of Florida.

It was little different from the infamous smoke filled back room dealings of the Democrat machine of old Daley in Chicago. Nothing to be proud of.

Call a spade a spade. Proper voting procedures, accurate ballots, ballots that don't confuse folks, and strict adherence to election laws is the very least that Amecicans should expect. This is and should be way ahead of partisan politics. Political freedom is perhaps the only real freedom that Americans still have. It should be guarded closely.

 

[surplus1]

She would get my vote.

Timebuilder, I have come to believe that you would vote for anything with and elephant on its T-shirt.

 

[Timebuilder]

That doesn't have anything to do with Condi.

I AM going to vote against Arlen Specter, though. He is without a doubt the most liberal republican in the Senate.

I heard that Ben Nighthorse Campbell will retire. He was on the first Olympic Judo Team for the US, and is the only american indian in the senate.

He will be tough to replace.

 

[surplus1]

That doesn't have anything to do with Condi.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought she was a Republican.

I think the president will stick with Cheney. Although he's a member of the Halliburton party (not a republican either), I'm not sure that GWB could run the country without him. Well, on second thought I take that back. It seems he can't even run the country with him.

 

[Singlecoil]

I hate freight,

Try for a moment to have a sense of humor and read the the quote I was referring to. He said FIVE PERCENT of the vote. I was merely having a little fun.

For the record, the Democrats made the errors in Florida and have themselves to blame for the outcome. The butterfly ballot alone was enough to be responsible for Bush being elected. I've seen that ballot and it is easy to see how someone could have thought they were voting for Gore, and instead voted for Pat Buchannan. That could be why he received a significantly higher percentage of votes in that particular county, Palm Beach I think it was, than he was polling elsewhere in Florida. The person who selected and approved of that ballot was a Democrat. Furthermore, asking for a recount in selected counties was a big mistake as well.

 

[CFI'er]

After all the recounts, Bush still won. Are you saying that the Democ’s are bad losers and can’t accept the facts that Bush still won?

1. How many times should the re-counting take place?

2. How many elections in the past are there where the popular vote did not elect a president?

 

[bart]

Spilt milk. What is done is done.

The democrats have themselves to blame for blowing the election in Florida, when their organizers picked up vanloads of senior citizens and gave them lunch for voting for number 2.

Too bad number 2 was Pat Buchanan and not Al Gore. That is what really cost those boobs the election and nothing else.

Surplus, you can look hard to the court decisions and actions of individuals that support your claim, but that will not change the fact that George Bush was elected President of the United States under the laws of this Nation.

I can provide an equal length if not longer list of democratic operatives that lied, cheated and stole to support Al Gore and give tales of an activist and liberal Florida Supreme Court ignoring the laws they swore to uphold to try to give the election to Al Gore.

The bottom line is that Democratic Activists in South Florida Screwed up in how they went about buying the votes of senior citizens and in the process gave the election to GWB.

If you do not believe this, then explain the statistical anomoly of Pat Buchanan getting 23 times the percentage of votes in Palm Beach County than he did anywhere else in Florida, and the ensuing outrage from Democrats over how hard it was to understand the ballots.

 

[Timebuilder]

surplus1 wrote, in relation to Condi Rice:

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought she was a Republican.

She is, but you had made mention to me supposedly "voting for anything with an elephant on it" or some nonsense like that.

My vote for Condi would be the same no matter her party affiliation. If the democrats suddely repented and became conservatives, stopped lying to seniors, stopped dividing the country into special interest groups of questionable moral fibre, then maybe I'd become a democrat.

I'm not holding my breath for that one.

After all the recounts, Bush still won.

In fact, he survived the recounts of the NY Times, the country's most liberal paper. That says quite a lot.

As for the absentee ballot question, the people making the determination of the legality of those ballots were democrats. If they surmised that the military was friendly to Al Gore, do you think for a moment that those ballots would have been rejected? Not on your life.

What about Jeb Bush being the governor of Florida? Is that a relevant fact?

No.

The governor has no standing in the conduct of a federal election. All legal wrangling took place between the Florida Supreme Court and the US Supreme Court. Flordia democrats wanted to pick and choose which counties would be recounted. The US Supremes said no. That's the end of it. Jeb Bush had nothing, nada, to do with it.

The bottom line is that Democratic Activists in South Florida Screwed up in how they went about buying the votes of senior citizens and in the process gave the election to GWB.

Well said.

My county still uses the punch card system. There is nothing difficult about using it. There is no problem with it that does not exist with any other system. Busing seniors and the mentaly challenged to the polls and suggesting where they should poke a hole was not only a tactical mistake, it was a moral one.

No surprises there.

 

[Tinpusher]

Aside from the abortion issue its quite simple...if you are rich and accept killing civilians as an acceptable price for fixing a former president's mistake vote W. If you work for a living and believe that concentrating our nations wealth in the top 1% is not in your interest and dont support runaway deficit spending vote Kerry.

 

[I Hate Freight]

Dr. Condoleeza Rice

Wow! I can no more contemplate Ms. Rice being a heartbeat away from the presidency than I can comtemplate Ms. Clinton being the president. You guys are incredible.

Why not? Dr. Rice is thoroughly accomplished in Government and National Security while Hitlery was nothing but a sleezy lawyer who married a draft dodging rapist who happened to become an impeached president which allowed her to become a carpet bagging senator from the most liberal state in America?

Here is some info on the woman Danny Glover, Harry Belafonte and many other racist left-wing liberals called a House Nig*er:

National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice: Earned her Bachelor's Degree in Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. (Note: Rice enrolled at the University of Denver at the age of 15, graduating at 19 with a Bachelor's Degree in
Political Science (Cum Laude). She earned a Master's Degree at the University of Notre Dame and a Doctorate from the University of Denver's Graduate School of International Studies. Both of her advanced degrees are also in Political Science.)

She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded Honorary Doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, and the University of Notre Dame in 1995. At Stanford, she has been a member of the Center for International Security and Arms Control, a Senior Fellow of the Institute for International Studies, and a Fellow of the Hoover Institution. Her books include Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995) with Philip Zelikow, The Gorbachev Era
(1986) with Alexander Dallin, and Uncertain Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army (1984). She also has written numerous articles on Soviet and East European foreign and defense policy, and has addressed audiences in settings ranging from the U.S. Ambassador's Residence in Moscow to the Commonwealth Club to the 1992 and 2000 Republican National
Conventions.

From 1989 through March 1991, the period of German reunification and the final days of the Soviet Union, she served in thebBush Administration as Director, and then Senior Director, of Soviet and East European Affairs in the National Security Council, and a Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs. In 1986, while an international affairs fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, she served as Special Assistant to the Director of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

In 1997, she served on the Federal Advisory Committee on Gender -- Integrated Training in the Military. She was a member of the boards of directors for the Chevron Corporation, the Charles Schwab Corporation, the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, the University of Notre Dame, the International Advisory Council of J.P. Morgan and the San Francisco
Symphony Board of Governors. She was a Founding Board member of the Center for a New Generation, an educational support fund for schools in East Palo Alto and East Menlo Park, California and was Vice President of the Boys and Girls Club of the Peninsula.

In addition, her past board service has encompassed such organizations as Transamerica Corporation, Hewlett Packard, the Carnegie Corporation, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, The Rand Corporation, the National Council for Soviet and East European Studies, the Mid-Peninsula Urban Coalition and
KQED, public broadcasting for San Francisco. Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she resides in Washington, D.C.

 

[AFpimp]

I really wish I had the last 30 seconds of my life back. You and Condi should get a room.

 

[CitationCapt]

My prediction

Dr. Rice is GW's secret weapon. Dick will not seek a second VP term due to health reasons. He will stay available in an advisory position and enjoy his Jackson WY residence more.

CC

 

[mar]

Yeah, and then what....?

Rice goes head to head with Hilary in 2008?

Holy crap!

Citation Capt you're a genius.
That's beautiful.

White males of world, look out!

The womyn are taking over!!

 

[CFI'er]

TINPUSHER,

Where did you get your information on the statements you made?

A. "If you are rich and accept killing civilians as an acceptable price for fixing a former president's mistake vote W."

What do you mean by "killing civilians" Are you saying that Clinton SNAFUed during his 8 years? Who do you classify as being rich?

B. "If you work for a living and believe that concentrating our nations wealth in the top 1% is not in your interest and dont support runaway deficit spending vote Kerry."

Both seem to be opposite. Who are you pushing for this election?

 

[I Hate Freight]

LMAO!

TINPUSHER,

B. "If you work for a living and believe that concentrating our nations wealth in the top 1% is not in your interest and dont support runaway deficit spending vote Kerry."

I can't seem to find this in my copy of the DNC's Class-Warfare Lies & Propaganda handbook. What page is it on again?

I HATE FREIGHT!

 

[surplus1]

surplus1 wrote, in relation to Condi Rice:

She is, but you had made mention to me supposedly "voting for anything with an elephant on it" or some nonsense like that.

I thought you would pick up on the fact that the GOP logo is an elephant. Apparently you didn't.

Since it was lost in the translation, what I meant was that your posts appear to indicate that you will vote for anything that calls itself "Republican". If that's what you want to do it's fine with me.

I just have trouble with the fact that you complain so loudly about being formerly brainwashed by the Democrat scumb, but you appear to be equally and willingly brainwashed by the Republican scumb. In other words, you are amenable to the concept of brainwashing, but selective about who holds the hose. That fascinates me.

As for the absentee ballot question, the people making the determination of the legality of those ballots were democrats. If they surmised that the military was friendly to Al Gore, do you think for a moment that those ballots would have been rejected? Not on your life.

I just happen to live in the same County where that took place, but I'm sure you are more informed about who the judge was, what the case was and how it was decided. By the way, the ballots were NOT rejected. They were accepted and counted nothwithstanding that they were clearly illegal and therefore invalid. They were accepted precisely because it was presumed that they would be favorable to Mr. Bush and by a wide margin, it turned out they were.

What about Jeb Bush being the governor of Florida? Is that a relevant fact? No.

The governor has no standing in the conduct of a federal election. Jeb Bush had nothing, nada, to do with it.

That's right. If you say so I guess the governor has no standing. He doesn't appoint any of the election officials, doesn't head up the canvassaing commission, has no political influence in the Sate and might as well live in Siberia as in Tallahassee. The entire process is operated by PFM. Since it doesn't really matter, I will accept that you are an expert on Florida election law.

I will also agree that a majority of the voters have no understanding of the electoral system and it would take them a month to wade through the complex legalese surrounding it. They don't even know that their vote does not elect a President directly even within their own State, it merely elects some delegate, that they did not choose as individuals, whose name they don't know and that they most likely never heard of, who may or may not cast his vote for the specified presidential candidate that they voted for, in a "majority" that defies accurate determination, on a ballot designed to confuse, which varies in almost every county.

The whole darn system is a recipie for fraud and political chicanery which flourished in Florida in the last election and will probably do the same in this one, regardless of which side is ultimately "declared" the winner. The concept of one man one vote is so lost in the shuffle as to be meaningless for the average citizen.

In short the system is a masterpiece of incompetence that could not possibly have come into existence by accident. It is not an evil Republican plot nor an evil Democrat plot. It is a system approved by both parties with the intent of confusing individual voters. There is no other logical explanation for the mess.

What could be more simple than one person voting for one person of his/her choice and having that vote counted as one? But no, I guess that would never work, it might turn out to be honest and deprive the politicos of their manipulative powers.

A farce.