Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Bush admin wants open skies in canada...

  • Thread starter Thread starter NoName
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 6

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

NoName

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2003
Posts
87
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/cpress/20040125/ca_pr_on_bu/more_open_skies_2

Long story short, bush admin wants to allow canadian airlines to fly inbetween US destination, ie Pittsburgh to Philly.
------------------------------------------
OTTAWA (CP) - The Bush administration is seeking cross-border free trade for North American airline companies - a concept that would mean serious domestic competition for Air Canada while giving Canadian carriers access to lucrative new routes in the United States.



U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci says Washington wants talks on liberalized aviation policies that would include allowing U.S. carriers to transport passengers between points in Canada and Canadian airlines to fly between American cities.


The 1995 Open Skies agreement between Canada and the United States curtailed time-consuming and costly forced connecting flights for passengers travelling between major cities in both countries. Business and tourism traffic have soared since the treaty was struck.


But the deal left several significant restrictions and protections on the airline industry in North America. Airlines in Canada and the United States are free to fly any cross-border route, but they are barred from flying cabotage or domestic flights in each other's country.


"I call it the almost-open skies," Cellucci said in an interview.


"We're interested in engaging on this. I made that clear to (former transport minister David) Collenette. Nothing happened."


That could change very soon.


Europe and the United States are already talking about de-regulation. John Byerly, the U.S. State Department's point man on aviation agreements, will be in Ottawa for a conference on air transport trends Tuesday.


Collenette's successor, Tony Valeri, has indicated he would like to negotiate the possible easing of restrictions on cargo flights into Canada, but wants to consult with Canadians before going any further.


"Minister Valeri has said this is something he would like to discuss," Cellucci noted. "He wants to see what people around Canada think.


"We think it's probably a good time to start discussing things like the cargo issue, as well as things like the cabotage and other issues involving open skies."


Valeri said he has already started meeting with various industry stakeholders, and those discussions would have to be complete before he begins any serious negotiations with the United States.


But the transport minister said in a weekend interview that he was prepared to look at any policies that constitute barriers to growth.


"Certainly opening up the markets is something I'm interested in, with the caveat that I'd have to spend a fair bit of time with the stakeholders. If we can position Canada as a North American gateway, it would be worthwhile having that discussion."


One of the major stakeholders - Air Canada CEO Robert Milton - is a keen backer of the talks.


"At every opportunity Mr. Milton has advocated further liberalization and greater integration of our aviation market," said Air Canada spokeswoman Laura Cooke.


"We are heartened there is support on both sides of the border towards further liberalization, as it represents a win-win solution that would serve to strengthen the close economic relationship between Canada and the U.S., boost both business and tourism, and ultimately benefit the consumer."





U.S. airlines have traditionally been reluctant to liberalize the current aviation agreement, since Air Canada is thought to have been the main beneficiary of the 1995 deal.

American carriers were beginning to warm to the idea just before the terrorist attacks of 2001. But the economic fallout of those airliner assaults brought several U.S. carriers to the brink of collapse, and the ardour for unrestricted air competition across the border disappeared as the U.S. Department of Transportation and the State Department dropped their pursuit of liberalized competition.

"I think it's an inefficiency," Cellucci said. "It's inconvenient and it's costing businesses money.
 
The deal would be reciprocal, ie American carriers would be allowed to fly north of the border.

This would benefit Canadian carriers *much* more than American ones. Canadian lowcosts such as Westjet, Jetsgo and Canjet have exceptionally low operating costs. Furthermore, their costs will be in Canadian dollars, worth about 75% of the USD, and that will increase their competitive advantage over their American counterparts. Even bloated Air Canada would do well simply because of the exchange rate.

Because competition is so fierce in Canada, there are few routes where a US carrier would have a chance at generating decent revenue. Furthermore, US carriers in general have a poorer in flight service standard compared to their Canadian counterparts, making it difficult to convince Canadians to swtich from AC to DL or AA between Toronto and Montreal.
 
This would benefit Canadian carriers *much* more than American ones. Canadian lowcosts such as Westjet, Jetsgo and Canjet have exceptionally low operating costs.

Exactly, hopefully this will not become a reality. This has the potential to do more damage than it would do good. The low cost Canadian carriers surely have a monopoly up there and I doubt very much that a US carrier would be able to compete on those markets although in certain situations it may be beneficial for the regionals. I have a hard time believing the same for the Canadian carriers in this country being able to make much profit, should be interesting.


3 5 0
 
Anything that loosens our borders will be met with large public opposition. If this passes, I think there will be public outrage.
 
Opening the skies to the Canadian LCCs would be deadly for the US Airline industry. There is a veritable armada of LCCs that would have a field day in US LCC dominated markets. Airlines like JetsGo have been advertsing MD-80 captain slots for 70k per year..... Bad News....
 
quote from crizz:

"Anything that loosens our borders will be met with large public opposition. If this passes, I think there will be public outrage."



Sorry, no, that would not happen.

First, most of the American public would have no clue as to what was going on, and second, as long as they get rock-bottom cheap airline fares they will not give a crap.
 
T-Gates said:
Airlines like JetsGo have been advertsing MD-80 captain slots for 70k per year..... Bad News....

I'm sorry, didn't you mean Allegiant Air?

I don't feel badly about picking on them at all. I had a direct flight ticket from Des Moines to Las Vegas that they decided AFTER I bought my ticket to make it a pit stop in Wichita. The people in Wichita also bought direct tickets and were upset. Add onto this the one hour delays (both ways) and you have a poor airline.
In their defense, the tickets were very cheap. $550 bought two round trip tickets and 3 nights at Excalibur.
 
(in a whisper)

Bush is making nice with the canucks because things got so nasty with their old PM.

This is just a discussion, and you can bet the American carriers will hve "beaucoups" input. (A little Canadian humor there)

:D
 
Another example of Bush's goodwill towards labor. If this stuff flies ten years from now we might see Air Canada battling it out with Korean Air to see who is going to control the US aviation market. Pretty soon the only job worth having in the US will be management.
 
Another example of Bush's goodwill towards labor. If this stuff flies ten years from now we might see Air Canada battling it out with Korean Air to see who is going to control the US aviation market. Pretty soon the only job worth having in the US will be management.

...and the democrats will give lip service to labor, while moving towards giving the UN sovereignty in the name of unity and peace.

Then you will see Korean Air here a whole lot sooner.

Wait until you see the US ATP abolished in favor of the european standards. Then you will yearn for the days of the republicans and a sovereign USA.
 
"Then you will see Korean Air here a whole lot sooner."

Maybe by flying in North American to North American standards, they'd learn something about CRM.

"Captain, the runway is full of trucks!"

"Shut up you inferior cretin!"
 
Furthermore, their costs will be in Canadian dollars, worth about 75% of the USD, and that will increase their competitive advantage over their American counterparts.

You might consider that a Canadian dollar also only buys about 75% of what a US dollar will. The exchange rate in itself DOES NOT increase or decrease their competitive advantage. Changes in the rate can impact SHORT TERM costs, but that is about it.

Generally, foreign exchange markets are extraordinarily efficient and anything to be gained by arbitraging currency or commodities is quickly identified and exploited, which eliminates the arb opportunity rather quickly.

In conclusion, this argument has no merit.

The other arguments stand, for if somone offers a comparable good at a lower price, generally they will take market share. So by all means, let us compete by raising barriers to entry, it obviously saved the auto and steel industries, so why not the airlines?
 
...

"You might consider that a Canadian dollar also only buys about 75% of what a US dollar will. The exchange rate in itself DOES NOT increase or decrease their competitive advantage. Changes in the rate can impact SHORT TERM costs, but that is about it. "

I think I understand the gist of what you say, such as fuel and landing fees. But how do labour costs factor into this? In this case, Canadian carriers will be paying employees (minus those working at US stations of course) in CAD, all while earning revenue in USD (for domestic US flights; transborder will be a mix of the two currencies).

Because I'm not familiar with finance nomenclature specific to airlines (or anything for that matter), does labour constitute a "short term" cost?
 
does labour constitute a "short term" cost?

No it does not. If Canadian workers are willing to do the same work as Americans, for less money (whether C$ or US$) then the airlines they fly for will have lower costs.

I cannot imagine this is the case, as a Canadian worker has to make about 15 to 20% (again whether C$ or US$) more than an American to enjoy the same standard of living to make up for the increased tax burden their country imposes upon them.


To compare US or Canadian wages you must choose one or the other currency and stick witth it through your analysis. Otherwise, we should all move to Italy because we could make millions of lira per year paddling a gondola.
 
There are 4 FedEx 727-100 aircraft operating within Canada. These aircraft are now flown by Canadian pilots. If things change it would be a plus for the FedEx pilot group.;)
 

Latest resources

Back
Top