Buffalo News Article about Pinnacle---very good read

[fam62c]

No payey no worky.

 

[fam62c]

What a gross distortion of our economical system... being paid millions of dollars to leave the company you just ruined is not success. It is legalized theft.

Giving yourself (through your golf club, master of the universe BOD buddies) a HUGE raise days before your company files bankruptcy and demands that all employees "sacrifice" is not success. It is legalized theft.

There is nothing moral or noble about the "capitalism" that is being practiced at pinnacle, or most US corporations.

They sign contracts to deliver their product below cost then file bankruptcy and expect their already underpaid employees to work for less to make up the difference? It's unfortunate the job market is still soft or everybody could just quit and get better jobs. That would be the end of that once and for all. It looks like Delta is going to pony up the money to keep this ship afloat for awhile longer until they can sell what's left (after they stiff all the creditors) to another subcontract operation.

 

[JustaNumber]

There are whiners and winners, makers and takers, haves and have-nots. Which you will be is up to you, not society, the gov't or circumstances. Success is a personal commitment and not a result of complaining about what's unfair, but overcoming obstacles.

So you're saying that if you're smart enough and persistent enough to make it into the ranks of the thieves, then you are deemed a success?

If we actually had a fair system where hard work itself equalled success, I'd agree with you. But now the game seems to be, try to become smart enough to steal from those who already did the hard work. Atlas Shrugged, anyone? How'd that one turn out?

It looks like Pinnacle/Mesaba/Delta management intentionally agreed to an unsustainable business model, in order to use precedent (through the BK court and RLA pattern-bargaining) to force all other regionals into the same unsustainable model. It is sad that you aspire to become (or at least admire) these upper management "successful" individuals. It's time Americans redefine "success" in life.

 

[wms]

I'm saying you don't have to be corrupt to be successful, you have to be persistent. There will always be corruption and it will always be wrong. But don't use the corruption of others as an excuse for not trying. That's a cop-out.

And don't try to spread the rhetoric that capitalism and democracy are the soul breeding ground of corruption. There are people like you and me in socialist and communist countries that are just as fed up with corruption.

I don't admire the scumbags bags that exploit our companies and careers for their personal gain. It's criminal what the CEOs in our industry have done, but I'm not going to let that keep me from being legitimately successful.

 

[Medeco]

This.

I'm saying you don't have to be corrupt to be successful, you have to be persistent. There will always be corruption and it will always be wrong. But don't use the corruption of others as an excuse for not trying. That's a cop-out.

And don't try to spread the rhetoric that capitalism and democracy are the soul breeding ground of corruption. There are people like you and me in socialist and communist countries that are just as fed up with corruption.

I don't admire the scumbags bags that exploit our companies and careers for their personal gain. It's criminal what the CEOs in our industry have done, but I'm not going to let that keep me from being legitimately successful.

 

[JustaNumber]

wms,
Thanks for clearing that up. It appears we're both on the same page.

As far as capitalism/democracy being a breeding ground for corruption, I believe that capitalism is just another word for economic freedom. You can use freedom to do good things or bad things; the government's only job is to punish the bad things. Profitable commerce is breaking down now because the government is protecting and rewarding the bad actions instead of punishing them.

 

[Smarta$$]

wms,
Thanks for clearing that up. It appears we're both on the same page.

As far as capitalism/democracy being a breeding ground for corruption, I believe that capitalism is just another word for economic freedom. You can use freedom to do good things or bad things; the government's only job is to punish the bad things. Profitable commerce is breaking down now because the government is protecting and rewarding the bad actions instead of punishing them.

This.... is exactly right. The rich and powerful (most of our bosses) have totally corrupted the government and used it as a weapon against the rest of us. The grossly widening income gap is clear proof that they are winning, and whole heartedly waging class warfare against US.

 

[atpcliff]

There are whiners and winners, makers and takers, haves and have-nots. Which you will be is up to you, not society, the gov't or circumstances. Success is a personal commitment and not a result of complaining about what's unfair, but overcoming obstacles.

So you are saying, if I was born in 1840, but I tried really, really hard, I could have become an airline pilot and would have been a 747 captain towards the end of my career????

cliff
DXB

 

[pilotyip]

There are whiners and winners, makers and takers, haves and have-nots. Which you will be is up to you, not society, the gov't or circumstances. Success is a personal commitment and not a result of complaining about what's unfair, but overcoming obstacles.

And timing and luck play no part in this process? Like a budy telling you about a job in the paper and you go home and dig down through the layers in your garbage can find the ad, fax a resume and get invited to interview 25 minutes later and it turns out to be the longest job you have every held.

Story goes like this it is 1997, after Zantop folds, I am working at IFL loading cargo for $250 a week. They promised me a pilot job, but said they didn’t need any right now, so I could ride the jumpseat and load freight to learn the business. One of the other Zantop pilots who had also experienced the come on of a pilot job at IFL says to me “Did you see the job for Director of Training at USA Jet, it was in the Sunday News?” I said no, but when I got home on Monday night I went to the garbage can and went down one later of garbage to find the Sunday paper. Don’t eat out much at $250/wk. I find the ad in the professional section, you know with CPA’s, Lawyers, and the place pilot always look.

Anyway I am thinking of dropping out of flying and becoming a schoolteacher, job security is becoming important to me in my mid 50’s. So I have this resume made up, with key words like curriculum development. Building block approach, etc. I stick my ratings and flight time on the resume, fax it in the next morning. Then I go to the unemployment office to beg for more money and I come home with the message light blinking on the phone. It is USA Jet, he wants to interview me ASAP, and I tell ‘em I can be there in 30 minutes. I get the job.

I had been going by USA Jet every month, blue suit, white shirt, red tie to drop off a resume while trying to talk to someone. Couldn’t get the time of day, all I got was the “Thank you” card, stating they would hold my resume for six months.

I knew no one who worked there, but I can say I found my job in a garbage can.

BTW: Are you one of those guys like wavy who says luck and timing played no part ij his career.

 

[Flyer1015]

OF course luck and timing have to do with everything! Even after 9/11, there were guys who started at regionals in 2002, then went to Continental in 2005 or 2006, or Delta in early 2007. Quite a few of these guys were in therir MID 20s when they got hired at mainline! Luck and timing is all it was. One, the economy wasn't too bad in 2006 and 7. Second, the age 65 rule hadn't been put into effect until Dec 2007. Many lucky guys went to a regional, upgraded quick, and left after 3-5 years to go to Continental, Delta, Fedex, UPS, etc while in their mid to upper 20s.

 

[doh]

wms,
thanks for clearing that up. It appears we're both on the same page.

As far as capitalism/democracy being a breeding ground for corruption, i believe that capitalism is just another word for economic freedom. You can use freedom to do good things or bad things; the government's only job is to punish the bad things. profitable commerce is breaking down now because the government is protecting and rewarding the bad actions instead of punishing them.

this!!!

 

[Simon Says]

deleted.

 

[Simon Says]

Good Story... PilotYip

So are you still the director of training?

 

[pilotyip]

Good Story... PilotYip

So are you still the director of training?

Nope just a DA-20 IP

 

[wms]

And timing and luck play no part in this process? Like a budy telling you about a job in the paper and you go home and dig down through the layers in your garbage can find the ad, fax a resume and get invited to interview 25 minutes later and it turns out to be the longest job you have every held.

Story goes like this it is 1997, after Zantop folds, I am working at IFL loading cargo for $250 a week. They promised me a pilot job, but said they didn’t need any right now, so I could ride the jumpseat and load freight to learn the business. One of the other Zantop pilots who had also experienced the come on of a pilot job at IFL says to me “Did you see the job for Director of Training at USA Jet, it was in the Sunday News?” I said no, but when I got home on Monday night I went to the garbage can and went down one later of garbage to find the Sunday paper. Don’t eat out much at $250/wk. I find the ad in the professional section, you know with CPA’s, Lawyers, and the place pilot always look.

Anyway I am thinking of dropping out of flying and becoming a schoolteacher, job security is becoming important to me in my mid 50’s. So I have this resume made up, with key words like curriculum development. Building block approach, etc. I stick my ratings and flight time on the resume, fax it in the next morning. Then I go to the unemployment office to beg for more money and I come home with the message light blinking on the phone. It is USA Jet, he wants to interview me ASAP, and I tell ‘em I can be there in 30 minutes. I get the job.

I had been going by USA Jet every month, blue suit, white shirt, red tie to drop off a resume while trying to talk to someone. Couldn’t get the time of day, all I got was the “Thank you” card, stating they would hold my resume for six months.

I knew no one who worked there, but I can say I found my job in a garbage can.

BTW: Are you one of those guys like wavy who says luck and timing played no part ij his career.

Of course timing is important. But there are no opportunities if you don't persist and prepare for when they come. If you had not built experience as a pilot USA jet would not have been an option. And maybe we won't end up exactly where we want to be, but we can persue and prepare for the the career we want to be ready for the opportunities that may come our way, DV.