Bravo or Beechjet

[HA XPEH]

Which airplane would you want? We are looking at some late 90's or early 2000 models and trying to stay in the neighborhood of 2M. Also what are some of you getting on the variable cost per hr? Pros/Cons of both? Full fuel-how many pax? Thanks for your time.

 

[340drvr]

1st thought that comes to mind is performance comparisons for hot/high/shorter runways, don't have the books in front of me, but I think there may be significant differences.

 

[LaGarbage Man]

I don't know if you have made your decision yet. If you have decided to go the Beech Jet route I can point you at a low time 97 400A with fresh engines, NDH and well equipped that the boss is ready to move. He upgraded to a G150 and his former chariot has got to go.
PM for details if interested.

 

[SabreFlyR]

Which airplane would you want? We are looking at some late 90's or early 2000 models and trying to stay in the neighborhood of 2M. Also what are some of you getting on the variable cost per hr? Pros/Cons of both? Full fuel-how many pax? Thanks for your time.

We have a '02 400A that is on Hawker Beechcraft Support plus and JSSI which cost us $765/hr. Our average fuel burn over 5.5 years of operation has been 1170 lbs/hr. Our full fuel payload is 650 pounds.

We cruise at M76-77 most times unless we are doing a 3 hr leg, then we'll use a constant M73.

I have not found runway length to be a problem in our ops, most of the places we go have 5000' plus runways anyhow. But yes high and hot can be a problem, our boss knows this and we plan accordingly.

The cabin with the mostly straight sidewall is comfortable and you will seldom see anyone tracking the seat towards the aisle to get more room. The lavatory for the most part is unusable and should be restricted to "I can't hold it any longer" use.

Baggage is tight and we ask everyone to use a 28 inch duffel type bag and it has worked well for us even with 6 passengers. With 4 paxs baggage has never been an issue.

Feel free to PM if you want more info.

 

[ultrarunner]

Which airplane would you want? We are looking at some late 90's or early 2000 models and trying to stay in the neighborhood of 2M. Also what are some of you getting on the variable cost per hr? Pros/Cons of both? Full fuel-how many pax? Thanks for your time.

HA XPEH, what 340 driver said. These two airplanes start having differently capabilities when you start loading them up, when it gets hot, and when the runways is wet/contaminated. And in all those cases, the Beech turns into a pretty big looser depending upon available runways, pax loads, and range requirements.

Take a careful look at your mission profile, potential loads and range requirements with those loads, because in the Beech can be scary restrictive.

Ultra

 

[NCherches]

Bravo ... no question about it. (at least in my opinion) - PM me for more details (and tons of Bravo financial numbers)

Last year we operated our Bravo for about $1800 / hour which included:

• Single Pilot
• Pro-Parts / JSSI Engine Program
• 200 hrs
• Fixed Costs/Hr: $600ish
• Variable Costs/Hr: $1300ish

The bravo can safely go in and usually out of 2500-3000 ft. runways with ample gas/pax for most normal missions. Its easy to fly, super reliable and passengers love it. I fly 380Kts for our bravo (around .67 mach) but we can go to FL410 always and usually 450 if we arent at gross and its not too hot up there.

Operating it single pilot, we are able to go with 6 pax + bags with fuel (or nearly full fuel) that gives us about 1800 miles and 4.5 hours w/reserves. Basically Arizona - Florida non-stop eastbound. I have actually had the Bravo in the air for 5.2 hours and still landed with 45 mins of gas but that requires FL450 and a lot of help from ATC actually getting you up there in time. At 410 we burn about 380lbs/side... 4860 is capacity.

The Bravo has great baggage room. Ours has a ski-tube as well as tons of nose baggage... its so nice to keep crew bags away from the pax. With the forward emer exit you can also load up the lav area with tons of bags as the Bravo's bathroom (like the 400's) is more for emergency usage

Let me know if you have any other questions...

 

[splatt]

I like the Beechjet better...

I've flown both and I like the speed of the 400A over the Citation. It goes faster than the 737's, so you don't have to get vectors off airways to let the faster traffic go by. And unless you're flying full of pax weight and runway length won't be a problem. The Citation will be able to use 4000' ft runways where the Beechjet may not be able to sometimes. Another nice feature in the Beechjet is the center seats totally recline, rotate and can be moved away from the interior wall's shell allowing for an almost flat bed like slumber experience. Costs are about the same at $1800 per hour. IMHO, unless you need short runways, go with the Beechjet.

 

[brokeflyer]

the beechjet is great if you wanna get paid for doing completely NOTHING.

If you want a great plane that is 50kts slower but can take off 90% more than go with the bravo....

beechjet is complete piece of trash....if you really want a beechjunk....just send me your money, you'll feel better in the end.

 

[NCherches]

How is the Beechjet Maintenance-wise? I have heard a lot of bad things but those could have just been crabby Options pilots...

If maintained properly, the Bravo will fly and fly without any write-ups...With the exception to the nose gear the bravo seems to be a well-built machine but maybe not the sexiest thing on the ramp.

 

[SabreFlyR]

How is the Beechjet Maintenance-wise? I have heard a lot of bad things but those could have just been crabby Options pilots...

If maintained properly, the Bravo will fly and fly without any write-ups...With the exception to the nose gear the bravo seems to be a well-built machine but maybe not the sexiest thing on the ramp.

Flying the same BJ for the last 800+ hours and I have had two AOG's. A bearing went out in a starter generator and an ADC that died.

This is our second Beechjet and both have been equally reliable. Our first Beechjet had almost 6000 hours on the airframe and it went thru an A, B, C inspection at Hawker Beechcraft when we sold it, the squawk list total came to $3500.

YMMV

 

[PlaneJohn]

We encountered this very situation about 9 years ago. My company was moving up from a Citation I, and were considering the Bravo and Beechjet. To make a long story short we went with the Beechjet and have been extremely satisfied. Our owner also felt hosed by Citation as we had a windshield issue that resulted in an AOG for well over a month because the retainer that holds the windshield in place had to be fabricated at Cessna. We more or less used the Bravo as negotiation with Raytheon to get them to come down on price, but in fairness to Cessna we were considering the Bravo as the price and passenger capacity were similar. With regard to our operations we are mainly an East coast operation with an occasional trip to SDL, TUS, and LAS 2 times a year. Our typical load is 3-4 pax with maybe 3 overnights a month. We seldom go into anything less than 5000 ft. Baggage is limited, but I have personally been able to get 6 pax and 2 pilots worth of baggage for a 3 day trip from CMH to APF with no problems. Our pax understand our limitations and never pack anything more than a roll-a-board that will fit in an overhead on an airline. Hourly cost of operation has been similar to what some of the others have posted on here, so $1700-1800 and hour is accurate. Dispatch reliability has been excellent, and I have only had to cancel maybe 3 trips in the past 9 years due to mx issues. Finding a good shop to maintain the Beechjet is key, as we have been through 2 of them. From a passengers perspective you can't beat the Beechjets cabin for its class, and when doing a 3 hour leg I'd rather be in the Beechjet than that tube of a cabin Citation. Maybe a minor issue to you but the Beechjet rides turbulence much better than a straight wing Citation any day. If your are used to ailerons, you may not like the spoiler control feel of the BE400 at first, but you get use to it pretty quick. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Quimby]

the beechjet is great if you wanna get paid for doing completely NOTHING.

If you want a great plane that is 50kts slower but can take off 90% more than go with the bravo....

beechjet is complete piece of trash....if you really want a beechjunk....just send me your money, you'll feel better in the end.

Have you flown the Beechjet? Or is this all heresay?

 

[ttflyer]

the beechjet is great if you wanna get paid for doing completely NOTHING.

If you want a great plane that is 50kts slower but can take off 90% more than go with the bravo....

beechjet is complete piece of trash....if you really want a beechjunk....just send me your money, you'll feel better in the end.

Sounds like somebody didn't eat their prunes this morning....

They're both airplanes, not relatives. Figure out what your mission is and pick the airplane that best fits your mission. The BeechJet is a fine airplane. I'm sure the Bravo is as well...

 

[NCherches]

The bravo sure doesn't ride turbulance very well - at least in my opinion...

 

[ultrarunner]

The bravo sure doesn't ride turbulance very well - at least in my opinion...

No straight wing Citation ever has, or ever will. No one will argue that point. A couple thousand hours myself in the straight-wings, so I know!

Ultra