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Brac affected pilots (reserve/guard)

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Vandal

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2002
Posts
347
Ok my homebase of pittsburgh is scheduled to get the Axe...assuming it is on the final list in September, what happens to us pilots? Are we free agents that need to find a new unit? Do we lose our pilot slots? I figure they have spent 2 mil or so on me I doubt they want to lose that investment?

Just when I thought I had my next few years figured out...Anyone have any clue what I need to do or what the process is for aircrew?
 
So if someone signed up to stay in there hometown and they move they have to go with it.I know that the reserve unit at Luke is not happy about Florida.
 
My 0.02 pesos on the matter.......

Well, as I understood it, the variable of importance is where the squadron goes, not where the airplane goes. This is my opinion based on talking to pilots who have gone thru this process.

For example, per the BRAC recommendations, the F-16 unit in Terre Haute IN lost their F-16's, which will be distributed among other Viper units. The pilots in this unit will NOT get a follow-on airframe, since the squadron will be disbanded. They are looking at seeking positions at other guard/Reserve units. Now, what skyboss pointed at is what COULD be a reasonable outcome, they COULD (and most likely) follow their old planes and seek positions in the receiptient units of their old birds. This would, AT BEST, be a courtesy and certainly not a guarantee. Their qualifications as pilots shouldn't give them too much trouble finding new home units, be them at the units who gained their old aircraft or other Viper units. But, it is NOT a function of whether the physical airplane gets sent to another unit or sent to the boneyard. Your personal situation will depend on what happens to your squadron, not your airplane. Your airplanes might get retired, only to be replaced with others (the case of Selfridge MI which I mention below) where the pilots won't move an inch unless they choose to transfer and not re-train to the -10.

On a different scenario, the OKC C-130 unit will have their -130H's scattered across several flying units but, as opposed to the Terre Haute squadron which did not have a follow-on assignment (de facto disband), this Wing will be blended to a Reserve Air Refueling Squadron in Tinker AFB. What this means for the OKC Herc pilots is that in their case they are looking at a nominal mission change from C-130's to KC-135's. They have the option of accepting the re-training into the new airframe at Tinker or seeking a transfer to other -130 units. That is somewhat of a better situation to be in.

Lastly, the scenario where the Wing is NOT disbanded and NOT moved but sees a mission change. This is a conventional mission change, such as the PR unit in '97 (F-16's to C-130s). I believe Selfridge MI is going thru the same scenario with this BRAC.... lost F-16's but gains A-10's...can't find the part where they talk about their heavy component, currently C-130's, can't remember if they kept them, lost them or exchange them, in the report. At any rate, that is yet a better situation in that you would have the locality variable fixed, and the options offered are the same as those in the previous scenario: re-train or transfer, their advantage being that their re-train would keep them in Selfridge if that is of importance in their personal lives. OKC and certainly Terre Haute, do not have the geographical advantage.

In the end, with the exception of units who only saw a gain (i.e no mission change and no net aircraft loss) it sucks for everybody, and that goes in varying degrees. As for Vandal's case, he will likely have folks at his unit help him relocate once he comes off the Rock, if the change comes that early, or more likely, help him relocate to a Herc unit once his home base goes kaput. I presume Pitt is not seeing a mission change, just disband, so it's just a transfer option for him when the time comes.

Aside from geographical relocations I don't see job losses for any current pilot or UPT dude in-training, or even those waiting start of training dates, so Vandal and the rest should be ok. This REALLY sucks for the folks outside the fence kicking pebbles (yours truly) who now have less units to send an app to.
 
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So our airplanes are supposed to be moved to Pope/Fort Bragg...does that mean I can choose to go there, or try and find another unit anywhere else?
 
It's unfortunate that so many Guard/reserve units are affected by this round of BRAC. The good thing is it could mean more opportunity for a lot of you who are looking for ANG/reserve pilot positions to be considered if a unit is converting to another jet.

Why you ask?

Many of the older pilots may not want to go through (or may not have a choice) a conversion course but would rather take the retirement. some pilots may want to move to a unit that flies their current MWS. Either way, a slot may go unfilled for a nano-second which gives the unknown a chance. It's happened.
 
Vandal,

From my understanding of the process, you don't get to choose anything in particular. There will be some handshaking and some dealing to be done in order for you to get with another unit, you shouldn't have a problem since you'll be current in the aircraft by the time this rolls around on your base. What I suggested in my previous post was that there is no entitlement that says you're in any way alloted your old plane in the new recipient unit. Take the KYANG example, they gained -130's from the TN unit (Nashville) and that compensates for a recent loss of their own 130's so in essence they will NOW be at 100% since they technically had surplus pilot and support manning. So it would be unlikely that the Nashville crew would be able to pick up their old planes by asking to be inducted in Louisville. But like I said, if I were in your shoes I wouldn't be worrying one bit, you're set, you'll get a plane somewhere no doubt about it.

Talon Driver,

I totally see your point, fighter-to-something-else conversions tend to be nasty on morale and good for the UPT hopeful, the most prominent right now is the NY UAV thing. I know for sure no Viper driver there is going to convert so they are looking at a major ops overhaul when the time comes..... yet on the same token I don't see many people tripping over that slot.

The biggest thing with this BRAC round is that a LOT of -16 units got hit. Thats a lot of Viper drivers shuffling around and I am inclined to say that the current displaced drivers will be willing to relocate. You are correct in that the older fighter folks will more likely retire than shuffle around or (God forbid) transition into a heavy. However I didn't see many if ANY fighter-to-heavy proposed conversions, mission change that historically opens the UPT slot floodgates (since historically fighter dudes just don't cross-over). This BRAC round can be summarized by overall loss of units and no fighter-to-heavy conversion.

I tend to consider the overall shrinking of the pool of Guard units as having the most negative impact on the chances of the UPT hopeful. Whichever manning issues may arise out of the BRAC shuffle will be taken care of internally, plenty of displaced drivers will follow their airframes and settle, even accounting for the attrition losses (older folks retire and folks who don't want to relocate or re-train).


P.S. With all due respect to the current units affected, I do hope your prediction is correct and bears significance this time around, it is clear we are now dealing with a noticeably smaller Guard world, which is really adding insult to injury in a force as connection-driven as the Guard pilot world. I can safely say I have never met with so much blocking of access in any pursuit of my life than this "pilot slot" thing, it's so entrenched it's ridiculous, and BRAC is just the icing on the cake.

A year and a half ago I was confident I could get a Viper, nowadays I would bid the f%ckin' ops van if they'd put strobe lights on it..Jesus :D
 
It would suck if you take a pilot slot in your hometown and have to move because they closed your base.I guess you could commute since you get paid for it.
 
In my UPT class we have three Guard guys and they all got hit hard with the BRAC. All three have really strong ties to the location of their units. I know several more in training who are in the same position. I hope it works out for them and they get a timeline of what the future holds.
 
As a civilian and tax payer (and one who would have liked to have a guard slot) I'm wondering what the he!! the military is thinking.

The Guard has carried the load since the fall of the Soviet Union. Are these reductions a slap in the face of the ANG because the regular Air Force is jealous? I just can't figure why you would want to downsize such a vital component of the "total force".

Being from Indiana, it's interesting that they finally "got" the Terre Haute unit. Those guys were great (former instructor was in that unit) and they thumbed their noses at the hierarchy whenever they could. I guess they got paid back...

Good luck to all those displaced by this BRAC.TC
 
Hey guys,

Check out:

https://www.issues.af.mil/

You might have to try it on a gov computer because it is secure. Click on BRAC 2005. You can find out exactly what is happening to every unit. For ex. It says my unit it getting 4 J's from Baltimore and 2 from Little Rock, we are projected to have 12-14 J's instead of 8.

I am sorry for some of you guys that may have not faired well. All I can suggest is get out early and network gaining units before the flood gates open and units get flooded with homeless guys. Good luck.
 
Foties..I am in Balt. I heard the split will not take place until 2009. I wonder what options I will have. We are to give 4 to you in CA and 4 to RI. I do not plan to move to either place. I wonder what I will be able to do. The commute would be too far.
 
AA717driver said:
As a civilian and tax payer (and one who would have liked to have a guard slot) I'm wondering what the he!! the military is thinking.

The Guard has carried the load since the fall of the Soviet Union. Are these reductions a slap in the face of the ANG because the regular Air Force is jealous? I just can't figure why you would want to downsize such a vital component of the "total force".

Being from Indiana, it's interesting that they finally "got" the Terre Haute unit. Those guys were great (former instructor was in that unit) and they thumbed their noses at the hierarchy whenever they could. I guess they got paid back...

Good luck to all those displaced by this BRAC.TC


Yeah, I'm confused by some things, too. We're retiring about 150 F-16s, which in all reality need to go. They're old and most are barely combat capable. But we're only retiring 3 F-15Cs?? WTFO? Those are even OLDER and cost more to operate per flight hour. I understand the Noble Eagle commitment, but Vipers can do that very easily. I don't want any bros to lose their jobs and I have mad respect for my eagle brethren, but I'd like to see more eagles go than vipers. Of course, I'm heavily biased.

And I'll agree with the above assessment. Where many of these Vipers get sent to, the pilot slots will not necessarily follow. Yes, many of the displaced dudes will get picked up at the gaining units, but there it'll be a courtesy only. No guarantees. There also may be a potential for the dudes on the outside looking in. If many of the guys at losing units elect to retire or just hang up the G-suit (wife has a good job, kids in school, too strong of ties to local area, etc), slots will open up. If a squadron goes from 15 PAA to 18 PAA, that means 6-9 more pilots, which means guys may get hired off the streets and sent the B Course. Good luck to everyone affected!
 
The fights not over

For those Units whom were affected......The fights not over yet anyways, IMHO you will see alot of political fighting over these Guard Units. In the end some will stay some will not. Now is the time to contact your respective congress man/woman and let the powers that be hash it out. It should very intersting finish.
 
psysicx said:
Don't you guys get money to commute?And will they let you find another unit?

They pay us extra to commute. The more you commute, the more money you make and the faster you get promoted. Some of us switch units 3 or 4 times a year.
 
I'm not too sure what actually happens when it comes to having your unit shut down but the ANG is owned by the state. Not the USAF unless activated. If your unit moves within the state, you should theoretically still have a job and have to commute to your new base. If they close and the planes go away, you're SOL. The question would be what happens to the AF Res guys who have their unit move to another state. It's a much different scenario since they're part of the USAF and not bound to one state.

The Selfridge thing that I read was that the A-10s would come from the other base in MI (which is to be closed), and are reportedly going to merge with Willow Grove, PA (also to be closed). What a mess.
 
We're retiring about 150 F-16s, which in all reality need to go. They're old and most are barely combat capable. But we're only retiring 3 F-15Cs?? WTFO?
I haven't had time to look at the BRAC brief, or the numbers, which I plan to as soon as I get to a mil computer, but my first thought when I read this post is "apples and oranges." A block 50 Viper is a completely different airplane to a block 30. F-15s are exactly the same, as far a mission. Some can hold more gas, have better radars, etc, but when it comes to getting a AIM-120 off the rail, every F-15 will have the missile flying at the exact same range.

How many more F-16's are there than F-15's, twice, three times? We've lost too many F-15s throughout it's life, as a result we need every single jet.

More later, I have to do some research.
 
And another thing

MAGNUM!! said:
Yeah, I'm confused by some things, too. We're retiring about 150 F-16s, which in all reality need to go. They're old and most are barely combat capable. But we're only retiring 3 F-15Cs?? WTFO? Those are even OLDER and cost more to operate per flight hour. I understand the Noble Eagle commitment, but Vipers can do that very easily. I don't want any bros to lose their jobs and I have mad respect for my eagle brethren, but I'd like to see more eagles go than vipers. Of course, I'm heavily biased.

I noted alot of light grays going to Nellis, sounds like a super aggressor squadron to me.

Plus, it ain't the years, it's the milage...http://forums.flightinfo.com/images/icons/icon30.gif
 
Stat just heard on fox news...

Gen. Meyers was quoted in saying in the last BRAC, 15% on the list survived. He said he expects a much less percentage this time.

Once again I wish you all great luck and am sorry to hear about some of your misfortunes.
 
Questions -

I have a FY06 Guard slot and my unit is on the BRAC closure list. I'm slated to leave for AMS in August and was told that I would still be sent to get my wings although ultimately, I'll probably end up flying somewhere else. How does that work? When I get back from training will I have to go through the whole application process again to find a new unit? I know there are going to be a lot of pilots out there looking for new units once this list gets finalized so it freaks me out a bit . I'm not sure what my options are . . .I just want to fly! Any info?
 
It Depends

I have a FY06 Guard slot and my unit is on the BRAC closure list.
The good news is you're going to pilot training. The bad news is you're going to have to look for a job. No, you won't have to go through the entire process again like a new hire, you'll be in a different category, rated pilot. Many have done this before, guys who thought they were going to fighters and not getting fighter qualed, they end up spending the last weeks of UPT making phone calls.
Now if you're going to a fighter, I'd start coming up with a plan of attack soon. Have the guys in the unit start calling their buddies for you. There will be far fewer fighter cockpits when you graduate from UPT. There will be a few guys who thought they were going to fighters that will end up going to heavies.
 
CCDiscoB said:
The good news is you're going to pilot training. The bad news is you're going to have to look for a job. No, you won't have to go through the entire process again like a new hire, you'll be in a different category, rated pilot. Many have done this before, guys who thought they were going to fighters and not getting fighter qualed, they end up spending the last weeks of UPT making phone calls.
Now if you're going to a fighter, I'd start coming up with a plan of attack soon. Have the guys in the unit start calling their buddies for you. There will be far fewer fighter cockpits when you graduate from UPT. There will be a few guys who thought they were going to fighters that will end up going to heavies.

In addition....it helps if you do very well in training. You'll have more options. If you're an awesome student (stick and attitude) it's easier for the SUPT squadron commander to put in a good word for you as well.
 
Thanks for the replies . . . makes me a little less nervous about what's to come! My unit is a C-130 unit and from what I've read in the BRAC the C-130 world kind of got turned upside down. Many of the C-130 units around the area I'd like to stay are slated to be closed or realigned. What happens if I want to swtch airframes to say a tanker. Will it be harder to find a new home or should I just stick to finding a C-130 unit elsewhere? I'm a non-prior so this is all new to me, sorry if it sounds a elementry.
 
MEW04 said:
Thanks for the replies . . . makes me a little less nervous about what's to come!

You'll cost a unit less money because UPT and OTS/AMS are already paid for by someone else.

Make sure that you don't allow all the uncertainty to distract you from doing well at Pilot Training.
 
My unit is a C-130 unit and from what I've read in the BRAC the C-130 world kind of got turned upside down.
Last I heard the Duke Field AC-130 Reserve Squadron and the Eglin HC-130 Reserve Squadron are always looking for pilots.
 
Not all units will have this same luxury, however Terre Haute is blessed in that while they are slated for closure, there is another F-16 unit about 2 1/2 hours away in FWA. And being in the same state, you can bet the ANG State HQ will take care of any of the guys from TH that want to go to FWA.

Hey Magnum....good to see you on the board!!
 
CCdisco - to be technically correct - there are no AC 130s in the reserves (the A models were phased out in 95), and the planes at Eglin aren't HC's. The Duke reserve unit consists of MC130E Talon Is. The Eglin unit is MC130P Combat Shaows. They are always hiring as AFSOC has a way of limiting the time the folks stay...meaning they can make it great or make it suck. I spent 11 years, and 3 of them in the reserves at Eglin.
hey are hiring if anyone wants to apply. They get touchy about folks that are not local due to the MANY..I mean MANY semi-annual requirements that the MCs have. The Talon Is have more than the Ps (Shadows) but both are tough. Great flying though. Especially during wartime.

Reddog130 - you are Martin St? Sorry man...I had sooooo many good times at the Marriot Residence Inn there during Banner...sooo many. Red Brick..I miss youuuuuuuuuu.....
 

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