Bottom Feeding

[svcta]

Wow, how quickly GateGirl reverted back to the training. She IS better than we are! It amazes me that people still think that completely immersing themselves in a school like that makes them better pilots/airmen(or airfemen, I guess?). I went to an aviation university for a semester. What they don't realize is that the 'program' completey homogenizes them and doesn't allow for any real decision making or experience building. Hours are not hours. I would contend that an employer would hire a freight dog who was actually seen what a load of ice looks like when he hits the lights VS. a Riddle grad who would love to explain the theory behind it. By the way, Gategirl, bring on the aerodynamics, I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

 

[The_Russian]

Ive got a fever baby..........and the only prescription.....IS MORE COWBELL!!!!


gotta i love it.........

now, tell me about laminar flow over a Kh-41 missle body.

 

[svcta]

thought you'd never ask......now what exactly do you mean by "laminar"?

 

[Hemingway@XJT]

XJTAv8r,


I have to agree with you on that one. Having spent 4 years there I saw all kinds. But I tried not to spend my time with the ones who fit the Riddle stereotype. Most of my friends from Riddle are down to earth.

I spent three years teaching and working charter before going to XJT and from what I've seen and experienced I would never say that Riddle pilots are the best. There are too many variables and since I trained at Riddle and at local FBOs and also taught at Riddle and local FBOs I can say I've seen great pilots and bad pilots alike come from both. I've also seen great instructors and bad instructors working at both.

I will admit there are those at Riddle that give the other graduates a bad name but to lump them all together into one mold places the ones who work hard, who try to always better themselves as pilots, and who don't believe that any pilot is better just because of the flight school that they went to but instead because of the pilot that they are in a category they don't belong in.

I'll also add that there are many days, probably most, that I wish I had a degree is something else other than Aeronautical Science. That's why I plan on getting a second degree in something completely different. From the way the costs at Riddle have skyrocketed since I graduated and the way the industry has become I would find it very difficult to ever recommend Riddle to anyone looking to go to college now. But that's just my opinion and I may be a little jaded lately.

I hope this post made sense, sometimes it's tough to place thoughts into a post like this.

 

[Standby 1]

If you were hiring a pilot, and you had two guys walk in with the same hours. One got his ratings at an FBO and a degree in Psychology from a state school or one who went to an aviation school and got his ratings there. Are you going to hire the giu who still thinks Bernoulli's Principle is what makes the plane fly because thats what the FAA says they have to teach you in ground school or the guy who actually knows a thing or two about aerodynamics?

That post cracks me up! Newsflash: the candidate who they could stand to share a cockpit with for a bid period is the one who gets hired. No one gives a rat's butt about some aerodynamic class you took as a neophyte pilot.



....

 

[StaySeated]

Did someone actually mention "getting hired by a major"? Uhhhh, hhhhheeeeelllllooooo! What decade are they planning on accomplishing that feat? I would use the quote function but I didn't go to riddle so I can't figure it out. I will say that getting an education outside of this dumbass industry is the best thing anyone can do. Does riddle actually offer a degree in some facet of aviation? Seems kind of silly. I learned to fly at a big ten university and after getting all my ratings I was told to go away and learn something I will use later in life, by the chief pilot.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

OHHHH,
"A better knowledge of the aircraft you are flying and aviation in general. Its sad that so many riddle kids come out with a chip on thier shoulder. Lets face it though.... If you were hiring a pilot, and you had two guys walk in with the same hours. One got his ratings at an FBO and a degree in Psychology from a state school or one who went to an aviation school and got his ratings there. Are you going to hire the giu who still thinks Bernoulli's Principle is what makes the plane fly because thats what the FAA says they have to teach you in ground school or the guy who actually knows a thing or two about aerodynamics?"
KOOL-AID, who's got the KOOL-AID, would you riddle rats quit hogging the KOOL-AID! I know that the 100k buys superior knowledge and abilities(just ask 'em), but filling the KOOL-AIDerator refrig, with all the KOOL-AID makes it hard to fill my frosty regional(gallon) mug with the heady brew.
Bla,bla, bla
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

FAA says they have to teach you in ground school or the guy who actually knows a thing or two about aerodynamics?"

Duhhh,
Any pilot who has had to pay their own way for flight training knows, dollars, thousands of dollars are what keeps airplanes(and pilots) in the air, not that bernie dude nor the FAA.
PBR

 

[surplus1]

Not making any excuses for the "cocky" Riddle grads, but GateGirl does have a point. The Aeronautical Science degree does teach you a lot of things that pilots should have in their background. I probably don't have enough experience but I haven't seen any FBO that even comes close. There probably is no difference in "turns around a point", lazy eights, or soft field landings, etc., but I can't remember the last time I did any of those things in an airliner.

The Aeronautical Science degree is not intended to give you "something to fall back on". Its purpose is to prepare you for a career as an aircraft pilot and it does a good job of that.

If you want a "back up" degree, then you should pursue some other discipline or pick a dual major (Yes, ERAU offers several other degrees). Maybe you should do post graduate work or even go to a different school.

As for the "arrogance" of ERAU graduates, in my experience it isn't much different than the arrogance of Perdue or UND graduates. I've met quite a few of those that thought they were the cat's meow as well. It's not much difference from the "pride" of the Harvard MBA's who have managed to bankrupt more companys that you can count or the Yale graduates who make it to the Presidency even when they can't speak English. It's just natural to be proud of one's school.

Bottom line is the ERAU AS graduates do get a solid background on which to build. They aren't God's gift to aviation but neither are the folks throwing rocks at them.

Go ahead a judge the people you run into that you don't like but that doesn't justify your critiques of the school or its curricula.

 

[XJTAv8r]

I'll also add that there are many days, probably most, that I wish I had a degree is something else other than Aeronautical Science. That's why I plan on getting a second degree in something completely different. From the way the costs at Riddle have skyrocketed since I graduated and the way the industry has become I would find it very difficult to ever recommend Riddle to anyone looking to go to college now. But that's just my opinion and I may be a little jaded lately.

Hemingway,

Thanks for helping me educate these guys against the stereotype that all Riddle grads are know-it-all, cocky types. We both know the vast majority are very professional and respectful of others.

On you thoughts regarding education, each route has its advantages and disadvantages. An aviation degree will provide you with more technical and in-depth aviation knowledge and could sway employer decisions in job interviews, but may or may not have a significant effect on your stick and rudder skill quality. A non aviation degree will be more helpful in a furlough or career change situation, but you may be fighting an uphill battle with the other ERAU, UND, OSU, etc. pilots in an airline interview. Your degree may have been a big help getting your current job. To be fair to the others, there certainly are FBO and liberal arts educated pilots with outstanding technical knowledge and flying skills. It all comes down to the person and how much they apply themselves. I took a somewhat "hybrid" route and got an aviation degree with a business minor. So far I'm happy with the route I took, but time will tell if I made the best decision.

 

[Hemingway@XJT]

Hey XJTAv8r,


I know what you're saying. Like I said, I think I might just be a little jaded. I did learn a lot with the major, but the industry makes you think about diversifying for the possible future. That's why I want to possibly get a second degree and maybe an MBA on top of that. I have a lot of extra time on my hands now and once I hold a nice line I'll have the ability to spend my free time working on whatever work I'd have to do. I had started my master's, I'm also debating not doing the second degree and instead looking into finishing that up through online courses, though I'm not sure which course of action would be the best.

OK, I'm finished boring you with all of that. On a different note, some of my best friends I met at Riddle so I must say that I wouldn't give that up for anything, and I know what you mean about the education and the experience, it's really up to each individual person and I wouldn't want to deter anyone from doing what they want to do.

Later

 

[Mongolikecandy]

Its sad that so many riddle kids come out with a chip on thier shoulder.

Anyone else see the irony?

(by the way GateGirl, mix in an English class. Even as a journalism major, I know how to spell "Thare")

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>Anyone else see the irony here?<<<

The only irony I see here is the behavior of the "I'm better than riddle grads because they are nasty, deplorable people" posters here. You are displaying the same sh1tty attitude as the people you purport to dislike.

I am a Riddle grad. A large chunk of my coworkers at each of my aviation jobs are Riddle grads. The people in this company who are the most difficult to deal with are, go figure, NOT Riddle grads.

In fact, the only people I have ever met in this industry that have some weird sense of entitlement are the children of other airline pilots, FO's at the largest regionals who inexplicably look down on pilots at the smaller companies, and graduates of NON-Riddle flight programs... Not to mention the occasional former military guy who thinks flying for a regional is beneath him (one of my former coworkers was famous for routinely hollering that anyone who went the civilian route didn't really know how to fly). I've heard it all so far... For instance, I sit there and calmly listen to FO's claim how smart they were to go to Purdue/UND/FIT/Western Michigan/etc. and how stupid Riddle grads are and how all Riddle grads think they are owed something. Hmmm... I don't know any Riddle grads that act that way. I know they're out there, but of the dozens of Riddle Rats I know, none of them behaves in the way that 40 or so posts on here would suggest.

As far as I'm concerned, the most annoying pilots out there are:

1- Nasty new-hire FO's at <insert huge wholly-owned jet regional here> who think that everyone else is lowering the bar in the profession

2- People who tell ME that all Riddle grads are stuck up

Get over it, kids. There are a lot of Riddle types out there who don't behave in the least the way that you assume. I wonder how many of you are taking the one d1ckhead Riddle guy/gal you met and disliked and assigning all of his/her annoying behavior to the thousands more of us who went to Riddle, work in aviation, and don't have a chip on their shoulder about it.

 

[svcta]

Okay, otherwise Embry-Riddle pilots:

I think that we all just thought it was funny(and irrestiable) that one of the first Riddle-defense posts actually turned in to a lesson in why Riddle pilots are actually better than the rest of us. Yes, we understand that it's a sterotype. I think that you all need to admit that these sterotypes exist for a reason. Which you have, so: Good job. Next, apologize for being a Riddle grad; nobody likes you. I'm kidding, of course.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Next, apologize for being a Riddle grad; nobody likes you. I'm kidding, of course.

Shame on me!

 

[flyer172r]

in my experience it isn't much different than the arrogance of Perdue or UND graduates.

We're only arrogant because it seems like we're the only ones who can spell Purdue. Think u as in university, the e is the chicken company. And no jokes about comparing the two. If Perdue was a corn company, then blast away, but there are no chickens in Indiana (not much of anything else in Indiana either).

And yes, every university has its good guys and its a$$holes. We definitely have some in my class at PU (blast away at that obvious joke, some days it really does smell here). I'd like to think the interviewing process separates the two, but it doesn't always work that way. Which is good, because otherwise we'd have no stereotypes to make jokes about, and less fun would be had by all. I love my school, and you love yours, let's just accept it and engage in some good-natured ribbing.

By the way Riddle grads, I just found out how much your instructors get paid, and I am jealous of that fact. But just that fact.

 

[XJTAv8r]

By the way Riddle grads, I just found out how much your instructors get paid, and I am jealous of that fact. But just that fact.

They had to unionize a few years ago because the university's pay and work rules were so horrible. I think they used to pay instructors less than $10/hour for flight time and ground instruction, meanwhile they charged the students around $40/hour for their services. Where the extra $30 went I'm not sure. Paperwork, etc. was all off the clock. I'm not sure how their pay and work rules are now, but I'm sure it's better. I think they are still the only unionized instructor group around.

 

[flyer172r]

We've been joking around about unionizing, maybe it's time to look more seriously at it.

 

[Mongolikecandy]

The only irony I see here is the behavior of the "I'm better than riddle grads because they are nasty, deplorable people" posters here. You are displaying the same sh1tty attitude as the people you purport to dislike.

I'm rubber, you're glue.

 

[XJTAv8r]

We've been joking around about unionizing, maybe it's time to look more seriously at it.

It helped the Riddle instructors. Unions aren't perfect, but at least they help right the wrongs of low pay and poor treatment. As individual instructors, you guys and girls have no leverage. I'm sure your school and others don't shed a tear when instructors quit because they can quickly and easily find an eager replacement at the low starting pay rate. I'm sure a union would raise your living standards and give you guys a lot more leverage and protection against bad management.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Unions aren't perfect, but at least they help right the wrongs of low pay and poor treatment.

Oh, no, not THAT can of worms.

 

[GogglesPisano]

All you need to learn in order to fly airplanes and make it to the 'regional' level can be acquired using books and a curious mind. The whole idea of a degree in "aeronautical sciences' is absurd.

Major in engineering, or business.

(Is Riddle even an accredited university?)

 

[SloDoDriver]

Those ERAU, UND etc Aeronautical degrees make expensive toilet paper after your first furlough.....

 

[XJTAv8r]

(Is Riddle even an accredited university?)

Yes it is.

 

[Clyde]

I am not trying to start anything here but I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT STILL GET A DEGREE IN AVIATION!!!!! TRUST ME....IT IS THE BIGGEST WASTE OF MONEY! GET A DEGREE IN SOMETHING YOU CAN FALL BACK ON SO THAT WHEN YOU ARE STUCK AS A REGIONAL FO FOR 5 YEARS YOU CAN AFFORD SOMETHING MORE THAN RAMEN NOODLES. I can't believe these aviation schools are still in business.

Very well put. With the industry the way it is today, one would think that more people would be avoiding these degrees, but it seems it's just the opposite. I guess people are getting in position for the "big recovery" that Commander Darby keeps promising everybody.

 

[capt. megadeth]

So a degree in something completely unrelated to aviation is going to help me?? Where as at Riddle and other aviation schools at least we learn things like aerodynamics... aviation law.... Dont think you'll get that from any FBO. So maybe Riddle kids pay to much and maybe some of them have attitudes (what do you expect when EVERYWHERE you go in the darn school you hear about how great the school is) but its what you are walking away with. A better knowledge of the aircraft you are flying and aviation in general. Besides does your local FBO have unusual attitude training?? I bet they dont, but Riddle does. That could save your assets one day.

Well, I don't have a degree in aviation and I found my jobs just fine. Not only that, I have a great side job that will save me from losing my house if I ever lose my medical, turn 60 and still have to work, etc. I learned about aerodynamics and aviation law on my own....from a book.

 

[BoilerUP]

Mine is bigger than yours! Mine is bigger than yours!


surplus1's post was right on, except for spelling PURDUE wrong. But that's okay, we'll give him one every now and again

Everybody is proud of their school, and thats perfectly fine. Its one thing to be proud, its another thing to be arrogant. A 300 hour pilot is a 300 hour pilot, a 500 hour pilot is a 500 hour pilot, and a 1000 hour pilot is a 1000 hour pilot. MAPD (and British Airways, for that matter) puts people into airliners at 300TT. I know turbine corp pilots with far less than 1000TT. The numbers in your logbook do not a competent pilot make. I really wish people would quit using that as the end-all guide of experience. I could have 2500 dual given in 152s, does that make me a better pilot than somebody with 500TT with lots of XC and actual IFR time? Is a pilot with 100 hours Seneca time a better pilot than somebody who has 50 hours of Seminole time and 100 hours in a transport category simulator? Its all about perspective...

I've met grads from all the major flight schools (Purdue, UND, ERAU, FIT, WMU, Illinois, SIU, blah blah blah) who were awesome people and good pilots. I've also met people from all those same schools who are chodes and I would hate to be paired with for a month. There is always going to be the 1%ers, and when you have 10,000 pilot students vs. 250 your 1% is going to be a much larger quantity. It doesnt take a math major to figure that out.

We can all debate the merits of our schools versus our 'competition'. It's the same sort of debate as Chevy vs. Ford. Some people who went the FBO route will always be jealous of the "wunderkids" of these programs who get hired before they do, and some of these "wunderkids" will think they are God's gift to aviation because they got a job with 500 hours. That will never change. I am very proud of my school, and I've been given opportunities I could not have gotten elsewhere here, but you won't EVER hear me say I'm better than anybody from any other school. The one thing that can't much be taught in academia is humility...

As long as we all know Ann Arbor is a whore, Illinois will win the Big 10 in basketball, Kentucky will whup UNC this weekend, and UND is too fargin cold, we are all on the same page.


BoilerUP

Aviation Flight Technology major
Volunteered to be chairman of a Purdue CFI union
Wishing I had minored in Management or Economics

 

[Ty Webb]

Anyone who accepts 20 bucks an hour to fly a 50 pax jet is not so bright. ?

Then what would you say about someone who pays $20,000. to sit in the right seat of a B1900 and play airline pilot? Even stupider?


Can I get a ruling on this?

 

[surplus1]

When you get one of those second class educations in a place like ERAU it hard to remember how to keep your Purs and dues straight. (That was supposed to be funny so everybody laugh.... now!)

Good post BoilerUp .... good school too.

S1

PS. I agree there's not much in Indiana (excpet Purdue of course) and UND is suited only to Eskimos (and a few people from MN).

 

[voteno]

Interns are just errand boys or girls sent by grocery store clerks.