Both hands on yoke during landing?

[polysciguy9]

Like most pilots, I was told that you need to keep your right hand on the throttle and your left on the yoke when landing small GA aircraft. I had one instructor, however, suggest that I keep both hands on the yoke if I felt like it would improve my control during the flare. I found that it actually did. Not long after, I read an article in AOPA flight training which suggested that with the time it takes to move your hand from the yoke to the throttle, you only gain an additional 22 feet of landing roll. Later, I flew with another instructor who scolded me for it and said that examiners would bust me on it. What do you guys think?

 

[viper548]

whatever works for you. As long as you can get on the throttle quickly in case of a go around. Personally, I always keep my hand on the throttle/thrust levers during landing

 

[bugchaser]

I guess it depends on what you are flying. On small GA stuff I think it best to always have a hand on the throttle in case of go around, excessive sink, or whatever. So much of my time is in airplanes with a stick that I developed the habit of always keeping one hand on the throttle. During IOE, a check airman scolded me for not having both hands on the yoke. Different strokes I guess. For me it feels good having immediate access to all the controls, including the throttle.

 

[NYCPilot]

Most instructors teach their students to keep one hand on the yoke and the other on the throttle. Normally, this is the proper way to fly an airplane. I teach students to always keep the hand on the throttle during taxi, takeoff and landing.

There are many good reasons to keep your hand on the throttle during the landing and flare. The main reason is the ability to quickly add power if necessary. You will find also that you may need to incrementally add and/or reduce power in very fine increments during your landing. This may be due to an excessive or slow sink rate, shifting winds and changes in velocity, bouncing, excessive floating, misjudging, go-arounds, etc.

It's best to get into the habit of keeping your hand on the throttle during certain phases of flight. Even if you're not taxiing, taking off or landing, you will usually need to keep the idle hand busy by tuning radios, writing things down and making any other control adjustments in flight. You will want to be able to fly the airplane with one hand skillfully and proficiently so that the other hand is free to attend to other tasks. This is sonething you will ultimately get use to.

When I was learning how to land, I too felt it helped to flare with both hands. By using both hands I was able to get a better feeling of the correct control movements required during the flare. It also allowed me to focus more attention on the landing and less on power management. I don't think there's anything wrong with learning to land with both hands initially, just don't get into the habit of it. You will find that once you've become very good at landing with both hands that you will be able to do it just as well with one.

I think some of the awkwardness of using only one hand is that you'll find that you tend not to keep the yoke straight and end up turning it unconsciously while flaring.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Doesn't matter. One hand on the throttle is a good idea for students (unless strength is an issue) since they are still learning where everything is. probably good when flying an unfamiliar airplane also, for the same reason.

Once you know where everything is, it doesn't really matter. Whatever works for you.

DPEs, like everyone else, have their own peculiarities and mistaken beliefs. Fly the way the DPE wants you to fly during the practical.

So, do you drive with one foot always on the brake?

 

[FrozenPilot]

I find that sometimes I land one handed, other times two. Depends on how bumpy the day is. Either way I keep my hand on the throttle til I'm at least in the flare and the engine is idling.

 

[F16fixer]

Land a Saratoga without the trim wheel turned back about 4 times on final and you'll need both hands.

Otherwise I teach my students to keep only one hand on the yolk. When it's gusty and the wind keeps increasing and decreasing on final I let them know that they may need to add a little power here and there on as the come in. It also comes in (handy) when they balloon the plane and need to add just a touch of power or go around. Not that I'm trying to preach a lesson on this board, I'm just telling you why I make it mandatory. I've seen 110lb freshmen girls fly and land a plane with one hand just fine, so there is no real strength issue at hand and if you think it's a safety issue then I guess you just need more practice.

Peace

 

[Metro752]

If you can pass a medical exam, there ain't no reason why you would have two hands on the yoke on landing if you are doing what you are suppose to be doing.

 

[polysciguy9]

If you can pass a medical exam, there ain't no reason why you would have two hands on the yoke on landing if you are doing what you are suppose to be doing.

I started gripping the yoke with two hands upon returning to flying after a several year hiatus. My first several flights back, however, were in pretty strong winds. I think it just felt more comfortable to have two hands on the yoke in a significant crosswind. I guess it's sort of habit now and I probably would be fine with a hand on the throttle during the flare - atleast in normal winds.

 

[Fly_Chick]

Trim the aircraft for a stabilized approach.

In any of our single engine trainers (Cessnas, Pipers), if the students needs two hands on the yoke to land the plane, the student better be initiating a go-around.

Strength should never be an issue in those planes, especially if the aircraft is properly trimmed. If the student cannot control the yooke with one hand, perhaps the student should try another plane.

That throttle is going to save them more than having that extra hand on the yoke, especially if it is windy and the student has to use throttle to control the plane (add a little, take away a little, full throttle for the go-around).

I have seen this more frequently with students who have learned through JAA. Not sure if there is a trend there, just they often have two hands on yoke for takeoff and landing and fly the plane with two hands. To me that just increases workload. I had an instrument student who told me his instructor had him fly the plane with two hands as it is easier to control, and I questioned him on this the first time I did a 'hold' with him.

I also had an instrument student (200 hours) who had his own plane, C172. Every landing he did he bounced, small bounces and usually got it down after two to three bounces. It turns out he learned in the C152, and NEVER used trim for anything except straight and level. Once we started using trim for takeoffs and landings, things really smoothed out.

 

[NYCPilot]

The go-around in a high performance aircraft may necessitate the use of both hands on the yoke. With full power and trimmed for the approach speed, you'll get a lot of nose-up action and some yaw to the left. Under these conditions you may have to use both hands to hold that nose down.

Have your instructor demonstrate an elevator trim stall for you. You'll notice that in order to keep the nose from coming up to high, you will need a lot of forward pressure to keep it down while you retrim.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I read an article in AOPA flight training which suggested that with the time it takes to move your hand from the yoke to the throttle, you only gain an additional 22 feet of landing roll.

22 feet as long as you only fly a 172 or similar. Use whatever method to learn how to land. Eventually if you plan on flying for a living you will have to learn to land with one hand. I can just about guarantee that you will not be allowed to get away with it in a 135 or 121 operation. Not that they would tell you it is wrong....the IP would just call a go-around 10 feet above the runway everytime you tried the two handed landing.

Same thing with keeping your hand on the throttles until V-1. Remove your hand early and that guarantees an engine failure prior to V1/MCA and a potential trip through the weeds.......well, the simulators rendition of the weeds anyhow!

 

[Fly_Chick]

In 121 or 135 operations, aren't throttles typically 'guarded' by the non-flying pilot?

 

[minitour]

In 121 or 135 operations, aren't throttles typically 'guarded' by the non-flying pilot?

Unless you're 135 single pilot, that's how I would imagine it being done.

-mini

 

[Pedro]

In 121 or 135 operations, aren't throttles typically 'guarded' by the non-flying pilot?

No, the the only time the non-flying plot has his/herhadns on the throttles/power levers, is on take off IF the flying pilot is the FO. Or depending on the aircraft, the FO may tweek them to th desire setting.



Now on the subject of landing with both hands on the yoke. I think it's a bad practice. I have had a few european students that learned toland wih both hands on the yoke though.
I tought my students to always have one hand on the throttle below 1000 ft AGL (to build a good habit).

 

[minitour]

No, the the only time the non-flying plot has his/herhadns on the throttles/power levers, is on take off IF the flying pilot is the FO. Or depending on the aircraft, the FO may tweek them to th desire setting.

Cool...good info!

-mini

 

[SuperFLUF]

In 121 or 135 operations, aren't throttles typically 'guarded' by the non-flying pilot?

Nope, not for landing.

The non flying pilot will set the takeoff power on some airplanes and at CAL the captain always guards the throttles for takeoff (and performs all aborts).

In the professional pilot ranks it is widely considered to be a sign of "weak" skills and poor technique if you are using both hands on the yoke. Big, long bodied aircraft often need power adjustments in the flare and both hands on the yoke is a good way to set yourself up for dragging the fuselage on landing.

If it works for you now, great but wean yourself off of it as soon as you can. Same thing for slipping all the way down final. Learn to kick the crab out in the flare.

 

[Pedro]

Big, long bodied aircraft often need power adjustments in the flare and both hands on the yoke is a good way to set yourself up for dragging the fuselage on landing.

Just like in our 145XRs

 

[flydrummer]

Another issue is that if you fly an Airbus you'd look pretty silly with two hands on the joystick

 

[minitour]

if you fly an Airbus...

but who wants to do that?


-mini

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

In 121 or 135 operations, aren't throttles typically 'guarded' by the non-flying pilot?

99% of the 121's the only pilot guarding the throttles is the Capt. until V-1. (I said 99% just because there may be a company that does it slightly different, though I have never seen anything different.)

In 135....well, most use the 121 method, but you do run across lots of different techniques from time to time. However I have never seen anybody (121 or 135) "guard" throttles on landing...there is no need since the flying pilot always has his/her hand on the throttles during landing!

Use the two handed landing if you need to for learning, but drop it ASAP after you figure out the landings. It is not an accepted practice anywhere that pays you to fly.

 

[JediNein]

First, fly how your company wants you to fly. If you will get fired for not conforming, then decide how much you need the job and go from there. If your company consists of 'Yoke-Nazis', do not read on.

If, however, you don't give a rat's arse sucking up to the OWTs that are handed down from generation to generation of pilots pretending to be fearless, perfect, superman fighter jocks, land it however it takes to be smooth and precise. Use runways that are long enough for the aircraft and allow some extra room if the two-handed, power-on technique is new to you.

I've worked with multiple clients that needed both hands on the yoke to finess their landings. They didn't give a rip about 'tradition', they wanted to know how to have greaser landings most of the time. In the short time we had together, teaching them to use trim, a touch of power, and two hands on the yoke during landing made significant improvements to their technique and success rate. It also made significant improvements to the comfort and security of the non-pilot significant other that flew with them.

Two hand on the yoke does not mean two death-grips, either. The yoke should not be in danger of breaking off in your hands. Two fingers from each hand, four if you're slightly out of trim, should be enough. Gently apply the back-pressure needed to stop the aircraft from sinking. As the aircraft settles, keep using equal, even pressure to bleed off airspeed until the full stall and touchdown. At that point, one hand can continue the pull until the yoke is full aft, and the other hand can remove the remaining power.

Nothing in the PTS for any rating allows for a failure based on technique if the standards are met.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Two hand on the yoke does not mean two death-grips, either. The yoke should not be in danger of breaking off in your hands. Two fingers from each hand, four if you're slightly out of trim, should be enough. Gently apply the back-pressure needed to stop the aircraft from sinking. As the aircraft settles, keep using equal, even pressure to bleed off airspeed until the full stall and touchdown. At that point, one hand can continue the pull until the yoke is full aft, and the other hand can remove the remaining power.

Nothing in the PTS for any rating allows for a failure based on technique if the standards are met.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

I agree with Jedi as long as you are sticking to straight wing applications. The technique will work even in a straight wing Citation. Not the way I would do it but it will work.

If you plan to fly professionally in a swept wing airplane, learn to do it one handed. You see all kinds of techniques in aircarrier equipment, however all of them involve throttle adjustment close to the ground. Things that are normal procedure in a straight wing airplane can kill you in a swept wing aircraft. One that comes to mind from Jedi's reply is the full stall landing. You CAN do a full stall landing in a swept wing airplane, however chances are it will not be reusable for the next flight until it goes through a maint. facility.

About the closest to a two handed landing that you would get away with in something like a 737 is after the initial flare at about 2 feet above the runway. Pull the power and then move to the two handed landing from an altitude of 1.5 feet. Everything with a swept wing that I ever flew landed best with a smooth power reduction through the entire flare and touchdown. Most of the time the power was not completly at idle until the main gear were already on the runway.

Bottom line, different airplanes require different techniques.

 

[polysciguy9]

Thanks a lot for everyone's advice ... I think I'll try and get in the habit of using one hand - I can do it, it just seemed like my flare's and landings were a lot smoother with two. I have less than 100 landings, though, so I've got some time to work out the kinks.

 

[Kream926]

when the wind is calm i use one hand on the power stick, one hand on the aileron deflector and one foot on the trim wheel in a 172RG

 

[gkrangers]

Just like in our 145XRs

Hey, compared to a 172, its a fvckin wide body!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

when the wind is calm i use one hand on the power stick, one hand on the aileron deflector and one foot on the trim wheel in a 172RG

You land in calm wind??!! Man what are you thinking?

Remind me to never fly with you!

 

[350DRIVER]

If you ever want to fly for a living as one poster has already mentioned then get used to landing with one hand on the yoke. You will learn this very quickly if you ever fly single pilot 135. It is better to get a strong foundation early on versus having to break habits at a later point in time. If you need to manipulate the power settings down low due to windshear, downdrafts, wake turbulence, etc, it is better to have that one hand already on the throttles to make the power application should it be needed versus having both hands on the yoke while being somewhat "slow". Different strokes for different folks but it was always my preferred method for the above mentioned reasons in addition to many others not to have both hand on the yoke while low, slow, and in landing configuration.

 

[Snakum]

I got yelled at on my first King Air landing for not keeping one hand on the power levers.

Of course, I didn't trim enough on the next landing to get the nose up with one hand and so I slammed it in ... and ... well ... I got yelled at again.

Everyone's always yelling at me, and that's not nithe because I'm tho thenthitive.


Minh

 

[jafo20]

I land with both hands over my eyes. It works great.