Blue or White Collar? You make the call.

[Phaedrus]

Just read a post from "draginass" in the "Doug Parker" thread. He claims we're all blue collar workers, just like "janitors".
I had this discussion with some friends of mine some months back and was wondering what you, the Flightinfo sages, think about this. I'm not trying to be an arson here. Please try to back up your position with some logic.
Thanks!

 

[flint4xx]

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/blue-collar

 

[NYCPilot]

There's also a category called pink collar.
Here are some definitions from: http://en.wikipedia.org

A blue-collar worker is a working class employee who performs manual or technical labor, such as in a factory or in technical maintenance "trades," in contrast to a white-collar worker, who does non-manual work generally at a desk.

White-collar workers perform tasks which are less "laborious" yet often more highly paid than blue-collar workers, who do manual work. They are salaried professionals (such as some doctors or lawyers), as well as employees in administrative or clerical positions. In some studies, managers are considered as part of the white-collar worker grouping, in others they are not. The name derives from the traditional white, button down shirts worn by workers of such professions.

Blue collar workers did jobs which required them to get dirty and often put them in the way of physical harm. White collar workers did jobs which were clean and safe, and thus often carried more prestige than blue collar jobs. Pink collar is a recent third term in this categorization, used to describe service jobs that are performed in a clean, safe environment, but often for relatively low pay and prestige.

A pink-collar worker does work that is traditionally or most likely done by women, or work that is performed in an office-environment but does not require the professional training of white-collar work.

 

[FR8mastr]

Used to be white collar, we were highly respected, and well paid.

Now Blue and just barely that. Why? just read these boards, I wont wear a hat, I dont want to wear a tie, do you like my back pack? and that is just the way we dress. Just wait until all the highly intellectual responses to my hat comment for another example.

This all started with the PFT programs, that have thus far completely undermined our once proud profession. Why would anyone respect someone who will pay for their job, and then only make 18K thereafter. It has since morphed into lower pay as the contract carriers start company after company to break unions and drive wages lower and lower. this is enabled by the low time guys who will work for anything in order to be an airline pilot. they think being a CFI for two months is paying their dues, and also still believe if they can just get into the RJ and get some time United and the big bucks are just aroung the corner. Unfortunetely by the time they realize what is going on they are getting pay cuts because of the new contract carrier du jour and the pilots willing to fly for them for even less for the same reasons.

I think blue collar would be a step up at this point.

 

[LearLove]

Like many jobs in our society today I'd say it (airline pilot) falls in both white and blue collar. Some flying jobs have more blue than white and some more white than blue.

note: I'm talking about the actual job of flying and excluding the "ownward slide" of the profession as noted in other posts above.

 

[FearlessFreep]

It's all perspective and what you are comparing it to. Transportation is a field into itself and there are certainly many different levels to it. From the Rickshaw Driver to the Supership Captain and everything in between. A New York Cabbie could definitely be seen as a blue collar worker, but I would not categorize a Supertanker Captain the same way.

I would say that at some point in our career paths we are all blue collar.

Unless your a very powerful CEO of a major corporation or a very successful and persuasive politician you are only chattel. I guess that's most of us.

 

[coolyokeluke]

Well I'm paid like a pink collar worker.

The training, education, high standards that I'm held to, and level of resposibility suggest white collar.

The fact that I have to collectively bargain for my wages and the fact that wall street scorns me as overpaid suggest that I'm blue collar.

 

[NYCPilot]

The term white collar is normally used to describe someone who possesses an occupation requiring a high level of technical skills. Professional pilots normally meet this criteria.

Most unskilled manual labor that requires little or no training can easily be deemed blue collar.

Everything in between might be considered pink collar.

The collar you wear although this has become somewhat of a misnomer, was traditionally connected to work you perfomed and not so much your salary.

 

[Phaedrus]

Blue Collar

• Direct approach — calls it what it is.
• Knows how to do the work.
• Has a do-it-yourself approach.
• Believes “you have to earn it.”
• Believes rewards come from hard work.
• Fears losing it all.
• Figures out how to fix things (again, and again).

White Collar

• Indirect approach — makes things agreeable.
• Knows how to delegate the work rather than do it.
• Finds people who can do it for him.
• Believes he’s entitled to his place in life.
• Believes rewards come from knowing the right people.
• Knows there’s more where this came from.
• Replaces with new things rather than fixing the old.

I found these characteristics rather interesting. Seems to be a lot of blurring don't you think?
Does anyone here equate white collar with a "profession". I mean "profession" in the classical sense only, not the overused, meaningless way it is used today as one's simple choice of an occupation.

 

[pilotyip]

There are knowledge workers, skilled workers and unskilled worker. A doctor is a knowledge worker. They go to school for up to 20 years, work for slave wages until established in practice. A pilot is a skilled worker. Anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can be a pilot, no high school diploma, no college degree required, just go develop a skill flying airplanes. Unskilled workers are normally refered to a blue collar workers. Pilots unlike Doctors, CPA's and Engineers have no unique abilities that allow them to change jobs and be paid close to their last job. The job can be done by anyone with a Comm/MEL/Inst.

 

[The Prussian]

Blue Collar:

JetBlue



White Collar:

Alaska
American
Continental
Delta
Northwest
Southwest
United
USAir/AWA

Am I missing something here?

 

[Thedude]

Sorry, but the Dept of Labor calls pilots blue collar

 

[Phaedrus]

If the government says it's so, it must be! Listen I rely on the government to define just about everything for me because they are so good at it. Por ejemplo:

1) handicapped-Nope, sorry, it's 'differently abled'
2) discrimination-Nope, that's 'affirmative action'
3) and so on.........

Sheesh. The government couldn't define anything right if they had Noah Webster as the Director of the Federal Definitions Agency.

 

[NYCPilot]

I think if you conducted a survey among the population, most would categorize a professional pilot as white collar.

Who cares whether it is or not anyway.

It has aspects of both blue and white which is what makes it fun.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Blue Collar:

JetBlue



White Collar:

Alaska
American
Continental
Delta
Northwest
Southwest
United
USAir/AWA

Am I missing something here?

Yes, at the end of a long trip...ring around the collar.

 

[Phaedrus]

Who cares whether it is or not anyway

It doesn't mean a d@mn thing, but it's interesting to discuss. I'd say more than a few people care just for perception's sake.

 

[NYCPilot]

I agree. That's why I've participated in the discussion. But who really cares anyway!

 

[NYCPilot]

It does seem like some feel that if it is in some way blue collar that its an insult or some form of a stigma.

 

[DH106]

What's important, here, is the way we consider ourselves and present ourselves, to our employers and the public.

A white-collar worker would:
- invest $70,000 in one's education
- work six jobs to obtain the high-paying job
- continually study and perfect knowledge and skills
- work in a leadership role
- manage difficult situations (not be managed)
- hold the responsibility of hundreds of lives
- be singlehandedly trusted with hundred-million-dollar equipment
- need to demonstrate complete proficiency every six months
- typically (but not always) be college-educated

I have enormous respect for blue-collar labor. But, blue-collar labor does not fit the description above.

My point is, be proud of the hard road traveled to get to the top. This is called a career path. White collar workers follow a career path. Blue collar workers do not.

 

[SSDD]

From reading a lot of the posts on this forum, I get the impression that not many have held a blue collar job in their lives. Daddy paid for their education and they want everything to happen yesterday. So because they're not at a major making $300,000 they're desillusioned and think what we do is blue collar work.

Get real

 

[sf260pilot]

White Collar Wage Earner + Blue Collar attitude + Union Member = ??????

Unless your at JetBlue.....Blue Collar + ......

 

[mdf]

White Collar. We really should start dressing the part.

 

[FN FAL]

What's important, here, is the way we consider ourselves and present ourselves, to our employers and the public.

A white-collar worker would:
- invest $70,000 in one's education
[yea, pilots are the only mo-fos on the planet with a student loan]
- work six jobs to obtain the high-paying job
[Yea, only a pilot work for free for 10 years just to get the good job]
- continually study and perfect knowledge and skills
[heh heh heh heh...you said skilled. Heck, even nurses get inservice training]
- work in a leadership role
[I was quasi management at a security company once, does that count?]
- manage difficult situations (not be managed)
[Airline pilots are the most managed people in world, whether it be by the company, the feds, the regs, the ops manual, the union, the coworkers, their medical status...you are managed.]
- hold the responsibility of hundreds of lives
[Timothy McVeigh was responsible for hundreds of lives]
- be singlehandedly trusted with hundred-million-dollar equipment
[They can always get someone that looks just like you to drive that machine for less]
- need to demonstrate complete proficiency every six months
[Yea, no other job has that requirement...that's why cops are bad shots and wreck their cop cars twice a week]
- typically (but not always) be college-educated
[All nurses are college educated...so they got you beat there]

I have enormous respect for blue-collar labor. But, blue-collar labor does not fit the description above. [I'm sure a Muslim could rationalize how other religions are wrong too]

My point is, be proud of the hard road traveled to get to the top. This is called a career path. White collar workers follow a career path. Blue collar workers do not.
[More false analogy...you can go from patrolman to chief of police in a career path as a blue collar worker.]

.....

 

[Fly2Scuba]

White Collar

The real important distinction between white and blue collar is responsibility and decision making power. In a typical factory the workers do what they are told and that's about it, where is the manager makes the decisions. In the cockpit, pilots have ultimate authority over decisions once the door is closed and therefore are managers (white collar).

 

[91100 100 set]

I know this thread is running it's course, but a wise old guy once told me that "airline pilots are blue-collar, and don't ever forget it...". He then asked me for the Before Start Checklist.

 

[NYCPilot]

Some seem very insulted by being labeled blue collar.
Personally, I think it's an aggregate of both which makes it fun.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey,
If you are paid by the hour, you are blue collar.
If you are paid a salary, you are white collar.
There will always be a fuzzy line that is hard to clarify, but thats life. We as hourly workers are blue collar, within that classification we may be nearer the top than the bottom of the scale, but are blue collar nontheless. You might say what about laywers that bill by the hour? Doctors who are on staff at a hospital, the question must be asked, does the paycheck say X hours times X hourly rate, if so blue collar. If your pay check is based upon a yearly salary, thats white collar.
the sooner we realize this fact, the sooner we will have a mechanism for future unity within the labor groups.
PBR

 

[OffHot]

PBR, Hospitalist--Doctors employed by the hospital, many are paid by the hour, so they must be blue collar doctors?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

PBR, Hospitalist--Doctors employed by the hospital, many are paid by the hour, so they must be blue collar doctors?

My statement stands, paid by the hour, LABOR. You guys are getting spun up over labels.The point is labor is labor and subject to the issues of hourly pay and workrule issues. To argue the point further, do doctors work with their hands, eyes other senses? To equate the difference between blue and white collar by cost/duration of training/education is futile and counterproductive.
Keep telling yourself that you are managment/whitecollar, wait for the C.E.O. to call for a consult and opinion from you. Ask the DAL guys who their buddies are, managment?
PBR

 

[NYCPilot]

Surgeons and dentists work mostly with their hands. Are they "blue collar" doctors?

Its's ok....you can call yourself white collar as a pilot if you like. No one will really care.