Blacks and Crime a study

[TechRep]

Study: Whites perceive more crime when blacks live nearby

In my research for my move to Toledo, I came across an interesting trend that I wanted to discuss with this forum. I am not a racist but I have discriminatory feelings like anyone else. I feel that areas or cities with high black populations tend to have more crime. When I look for places to live I do so based on quality of schools, crime index and cost of living.

I found that areas with high populations of blacks, defined as the total population being more than 20% are more apt to be unsafe, that is crime ridden. I found I wasn’t alone in feeling this way and I know this is a very touchy subject.

I want to discuss blacks and crime and are blacks more apt to commit crime and why? Is this premise completely incorrect? If so, why? Am I a racist for feeling this way? Do blacks have equal perceptions about whites?

I provide some research and an article which points out my particular feelings on this subject. The following data was taken from the 5th Annual America’s safest and most dangerous cities and mainly concentrates on populations less than a Million. http://www.morganquitno.com/Top25Cities.htm

My data for population numbers based on race was taken from the following web site. http://www.city-data.com/

I provide the following data, based on black population only, follow the link. http://www.city-data.com/ to site other race percentages. Cities with high black populations are constantly more violent that cities with low black populations. I found this trend consistent, where as other races; Whites, Hispanics, American Indians or other Races had very inconsistent trends.

Lets have some civil dialogue about race and some useful counter data proving me incorrect on this subject.


Article:
http://www.news.wisc.edu/story.php?get=7433

Study: Whites perceive more crime when blacks live nearby

(Posted: 04/26/02)

Perceptions of crime in a particular neighborhood may be due to the presence of young African-American men, according to a new study by two UW-Madison researchers.

The study, by sociology assistant professor Lincoln Quillian and graduate student Devah Pager, found residents in Chicago, Baltimore and Seattle to be influenced strongly by the racial composition of their neighborhood in judging its level of crime.

The study indicates that even in neighborhoods with low crime rates, residents perceive crime to be a big problem when young black men live in the area.

In fact, the percentage of young black men in a neighborhood more closely matched perceptions of crime than the actual neighborhood crime rates as reported in police department and victimization surveys. The authors found that the higher the percentage of young black men in a neighborhood, the greater the residents' perceptions of crime.

"These results demonstrate the strong stereotypes people have about blacks and crime. People automatically assume that if there are young black men around, they must be engaged in crime. It's just not true," Pager says.
In the study, residents were asked to rate the level of crime in their neighborhoods. These ratings were then matched with neighborhood census data and police reports.

"The significance of this study is that it is the first study to show that white perceptions associating black neighbors with higher crime do not merely reflect actual crime but result from an overestimation of the association between race and crime," Quillian says.

Other studies have measured associations between race and perceptions of crime without measures of actual neighborhood crime or other objective neighborhood conditions, including building deterioration and social disorder.
The authors say their conclusions have implications for the process of residential segregation: Whites claim to move out of integrated or black neighborhoods not because of race but because these neighborhoods are perceived to have more problems (crime, housing deterioration, etc.).
In showing that the perceptions themselves are racially influenced, the authors question whether neighborhood integration can be achieved with anything short of a significant weakening of stereotypes associating blacks with crime.

"We believe that media images associating blacks with crime perpetuates distorted images," Pager says. "Unless we recognize that black criminals represent only a small proportion of the overall black population, whites will continue to feel threatened by black neighbors, and they will continue to flee from integrated neighborhoods."

The study will appear Monday, April 29, in the American Journal of Sociology.


Safest

Most Dangerous Order
Safest Order City Score 1997 Population
300 1 Amherst, NY (81.70) 107,047 Black (3.9%)
299 2 Newton, MA (78.81) 86,445 Black (2.0%)
298 3 Greece, NY (73.25) 90,886 Black (2.9%)
297 4 Thousand Oaks, CA(70.93) 113,935 Black (1.1%)
296 5 Clarkstown, NY (70.63) 79,295 Black (7.9%)
295 6 Mission Viejo, CA (70.39) 86,043 Black (1.1%)
294 7 Sunnyvale, CA (66.70) 122,767 Black (2.2%)
293 8 Hamilton, NJ (66.45) 90,173 Unavailable
292 9 Irvine, CA (64.87) 128,968 Black (1.4%)
291 10 Sterling Heights, MI(64.45) 123,002 Black (1.3%)
290 11 Troy, MI (63.41) 81,340 Black (2.1%)
289 12 Farmington Hills, MI(63.33) 81,459 Black (6.9%)
288 13 Cheektowaga, NY (62.34) 94,326 Black (2.9%)
287 14 Livonia, MI (60.83) 103,353 Black (0.9%)
286 15 Simi Valley, CA (59.45) 109,795 Black (1.3%)
285 16 Dover, NJ (58.29) 79,721 Black (6.8%)
284 17 Richardson, TX (57.55) 83,236 Black (6.2%)
283 18 Orem, UT (57.25) 80,290 Below 1%
282 19 Sandy, UT (56.91) 92,164 Black (0.5%)
281 20 Warwick, RI (54.79) 85,451 Black (1.2%)
280 21 Fargo, ND (54.05) 79,888 Black (1.0%)
279 22 Cape Coral, FL (53.83) 89,236 Black (2.0%)
278 23 Plano, TX (52.82) 166,480 Black (5.0%)
277 24 Edison,NJ (52.49) 93,653 Black (6.9%)
276 25 Provo, UT (50.32) 95,524 Below 1%
275 26 Cranston, RI (49.22) 76,547 Black (3.7%)
274 27 Ann Arbor, MI (47.89) 112,001 Black (8.8%)
273 28 Santa Clarita, CA (47.74) 126,969 Black (2.1%)
272 29 Green Bay, WI (46.63) 104,485 Black (1.4%)
271 30 Santa Clara, CA (45.26) 97,078 Black (2.3%)

Unsafe:

30 271 Dayton, OH 171.77 179,888 Black (43.1%)
29 272 Nashville, TN 173.53 531,908 Unavailable
28 273 Orlando, FL 174.33 185,837 Black (26.9%)
27 274 Richmond, CA 176.77 90,284 Black (36.1%)
26 275 Springfield, MA 177.13 151,063 Black (21.0%)
25 276 Miami Beach, FL 180.99 94,682 Black (4.0%)
24 277 Birmingham, AL 184.96 275,236 Black (73.5%)
23 278 New Haven, CT 189.18 119,420 Black (37.4%)
22 279 Kansas City, MO 191.01 452,070 Black (31.2%)
21 280 Jackson, MS 195.53 197,819 Black (70.6%)
20 281 Bridgeport, CT 197.20 132,852 Black (30.8%)
19 282 Flint, MI 200.64 142,206 Black (53.3%)
18 283 Youngstown, OH 202.88 92,467 Black (43.8%)
17 284 Tampa, FL 206.83 299,867 Black (26.1%)
16 285 Oakland, CA 207.36 376,696 Black (35.7%)
15 286 Minneapolis, MN 216.28 363,932 Black (18.0%)
14 287 Memphis, TN 235.82 637,492 Black (61.4%)
13 288 Compton, CA 236.72 99,045 Black (40.3%)
12 289 West Palm Beach, FL249.65 79,246 Black (32.2%)
11 290 Washington, DC 252.66 529,000 Black (60.0%)
10 291 Newark, NJ 261.13 264,270 Black (53.5%)
9 292 Miami, FL 265.29 391,766 Black (22.3%)
8 293 Baltimore, MD 265.78 719,587 Black (64.3%)
7 294 Richmond, VA 265.87 206,692 Black (57.2%)
6 295 New Orleans, LA 270.57 488,509 Black (67.3%)
5 296 St. Louis, MO 296.68 377,221 Black (51.2%)
4 297 Atlanta, GA 308.30 420,865 Black (61.4%)
3 298 Detroit, MI 323.31 1,021,412 Black(81.6%)
2 299 Camden, NJ 363.20 84,427 Black (53.3%)
1 300 Gary, IN 370.61 116,481 Black (84.0%)

TechRep

 

[Timebuilder]

I think this has much more to do with cultural mores than skin color or national origin.

I have spent a great deal of time in poor neighborhoods like Philadlephia's Germantown and West Philly sections. Years ago, these neighborhoods were populated by generally hard working, cleanly dressed people who were eager to learn, study, and work. They turned into people like Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams. Walter grew up in the Richard Allen homes in Philadlephia.

At some poiint, perhaps as an offshoot of the 1960's militant movement, the desire for work was replaced by a desire for welfare. Learning and excelling in school became viewed as "acting white," and drug use and gang activity skyrocketed. One might have thought that school bussing might have helped to correct this trend, exposing young black children to a more wholesome experience. Instead, this cultural decay and loss of work ethic has spread into suburban schools, and now dominates popular culture with words and images that I had no contact with when I was their age.

This decay can only be defeated by a new generation of black role models, those worthy of being models. Not Allen Iverson or P Diddy, but JC Watts, and legitimately successful, intelligent, law-abiding individuals like him. You can't rebuild a culture using tatoos, drugs, broken families, illegitimate births, and chronic delinquency. You have to return to time honored values for the foundation of a culture.

It will be a BIG job. Until then, people will fear crime laden neighborhoods, and the minorities who don't buy into this culture of moral decay will join the rest of America in fleeing those neighborhoods.

It has to start with changing hearts and minds. We have proven that money will not fix it.

 

[Q200_FO]

Timebuilder, for once we are in agreement, about needing real black role models besides rap stars and ball players anyway. Except for JC Watts. I'm not too fond of him to be honest. But I do find it interesting that you singled out the only black republican in the house as a "worthy" role model.

 

[Timebuilder]

Shhh!

Next thing we know Mar and Hugh Jordan will agree!!

 

[TechRep]

Timebuilders comments got me to thinking and I came up with some key facts from internet searches.

* Many ethnic minorities live in inner city areas (cheap private housing) and may be drawn into culture of criminality.

* Ethnic minorities more likely to be in the lower classes of society, it is not surprising that we see a greater percentage of their population in trouble with the law (see social class factors.). If we control for social class, all ethnicities have a very similar amount of street crime activity in their populations. When ethnic minorities move to "white" neighbourhoods that are lower in crime, their crime rate is the same as the rest of the neighbourhood, while whites living in lower class areas tend to be as criminal as their minority counterparts.

* Young blacks have higher levels of unemployment than whites which may produce greater temptation for crime.

* Cultural socialisation – many black working class families are headed by single parent (usually female). Families may lack a father figure, leading to lack of discipline and social control.* Ethnic minority subcultures (eg Rastafarianism) are also subject to racial discrimination. Subcultures may represent a support system against discrimination and lead into criminality through peer pressure etc.

* Some Asian groups have large extended family structures which act as strong agencies of social control

* Police may target ethnic minorities (because of their relatively higher involvement in crime)* Self-fulfilling prophecy (police believe young blacks more likely to be involved in crime) may result in more targeting and more arrests of ethnic minorities.

* Deviancy Amplification process may occur whereby police stereotyping and scapegoating of ethnic minorities may result in appearance of more crime amongst ethnic minorities.

* Judicial stereotypes about black culture may result in more ethnic minorities being sent to prison.

* Ethnic minority groups may be more socially visible to the police (especially when present in areas associated with ethnic majority).

* Crime may occur as the result of racism / racial tensions.

TechRep

 

[Timebuilder]

While there is a lot of points of interest there in your list, not all points are worhty of being taken at face value.

* Young blacks have higher levels of unemployment than whites which may produce greater temptation for crime.

For instance, if young blacks grow up believing that they are not "acting black" if they apply themselves, study hard, and get good grades, then they are less likely to be employed at all, and may see the riches of drug sales and prostitution as more fitting for a young "playah."

 

[mar]

Fat chance

Shhh!

Next thing we know Mar and Hugh Jordan will agree!!

Every racist I've ever known has started a conversation with, "I'm not a racist but..."

One comment: TB, it's interesting that from the millions of black people nationwide you chose to only name one positive role model: an outspoken Republican.

Parting shot: This thread is pretty offensive and this finishes my participation.

I hope it's deleted. It has no business on this website.

 

[TechRep]

Mar it would be better to disprove my facts with counter data instead of a raw emotional rant. I also find your reaction as pretty standard in the US, maybe that could be part of the problem. The inability to discuss very sensitive issues such this, IMO is part of the problem. I would like to be part of the solution, although your opting out of the thread is your option.

 

[sqwkvfr]

I think this has much more to do with cultural mores than skin color or national origin.

I have spent a great deal of time in poor neighborhoods like Philadlephia's Germantown and West Philly sections. Years ago, these neighborhoods were populated by generally hard working, cleanly dressed people who were eager to learn, study, and work. They turned into people like Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams. Walter grew up in the Richard Allen homes in Philadlephia.

At some poiint, perhaps as an offshoot of the 1960's militant movement, the desire for work was replaced by a desire for welfare. Learning and excelling in school became viewed as "acting white," and drug use and gang activity skyrocketed. One might have thought that school bussing might have helped to correct this trend, exposing young black children to a more wholesome experience. Instead, this cultural decay and loss of work ethic has spread into suburban schools, and now dominates popular culture with words and images that I had no contact with when I was their age.

This decay can only be defeated by a new generation of black role models, those worthy of being models. Not Allen Iverson or P Diddy, but JC Watts, and legitimately successful, intelligent, law-abiding individuals like him. You can't rebuild a culture using tatoos, drugs, broken families, illegitimate births, and chronic delinquency. You have to return to time honored values for the foundation of a culture.

It will be a BIG job. Until then, people will fear crime laden neighborhoods, and the minorities who don't buy into this culture of moral decay will join the rest of America in fleeing those neighborhoods.

It has to start with changing hearts and minds. We have proven that money will not fix it.

I was wringing my hands to jump into this one, but there's really nothing left to say.

I'll just add my voice to those who say this has much more to do with cultural socialization and a perceived social position than skin color.

In college, I remember reading about a study showing how crime/unemployment/misery index or whatever social measure remained almost identical in inner city areas even though they were populated by different ethnic groups over time. I don't remember exactly what the ethic groups are so bear with me here. Say for example, Irish people would be in the "rougher" parts of a city, eventually, as that ethnic group's social position moved upward they'd spread out (to the 'burbs or whereever) and the Italians would move in, Eventually, they'd move out and the blacks would move in...right now, the trend seems to be that the blacks are moving out and the hispanics are moving in....hopefully I explained this somewhat coherently.

Anyway during these changes, crime rates remained the same despite which ethnic group was occupying said area. I think this is evidence that no race is more likely to commit cimes than another, it just happens that people of the same race or enthnicity congregate and socialize with each other (thus living in the same nieghborhoods) and that group's percieved social position influences it's activities.

Hopefully what I wrote made sense to someone other than me.

 

[Flying Illini]

There was a comedian on TV the other night and he brought up something very similar. It was along the lines of how white people will avoid ANYTHING that can be termed as racism. We're too afraid to say anything or act in any way that could be termed as that. I don't really have a point other than the fact that white people tend to avoid the subject at all costs when something like this needs to be brought up.
Interesting thread. If it isn't the skin color, why is the neighborhood the cause of the crime rates? And more importantly, how is it fixed (In your opinion)?

 

[sqwkvfr]

Interesting thread. If it isn't the skin color, why is the neighborhood the cause of the crime rates? And more importantly, how is it fixed (In your opinion)? [/B]

I was afraid I wasn't clear....It's not the neighborhood, it's the social position (in relation to other racial or ethnic groups) that goes along with the neighborhood.

How this for a personal thery? Until recently, the folks in the inner city were the ones who had most recently immigrated into the country....as they became more acclimated and figured out the system, they became more successfull as a group and moved on.

How is it fixed? That's the trillion-dollar question.

 

[Capt. Tex]

While at first this thread seems to be offensive, and this really doesn't belong on an aviation forum, the topic of better black role models for children needs to be discussed, preferably within the black community and not on an anonymous Internet message board. I seriously doubt anybody cruising on this forum wants to discuss this subject seriously, so all I will say is that it's all about perception. If you believe that crime in a certain neighborhood is at a high level because of one particular minority group then maybe you need to look at yourself and figure out why you believe in such perceptions. Especially if you've seen hard data that proves otherwise. To fix this you have to turn to the media. As long as they are portraying blacks and other minorities as criminals the sheep watching it on TV who can't think for themselves will believe it. Real black role models in positions of authority showing young people that they can make something out of themselves if they work hard will help curb this trend.

 

[TechRep]

"If you believe that crime in a certain neighborhood is at a high level because of one particular minority group then maybe you need to look at yourself and figure out why you believe in such perceptions."


Thats what I am trying to do here! I did post this in the wrong forum can it be moved?

TechRep

 

[Timebuilder]

When the irish/italians/you name em were the rotaing minorities in some neighborhoods, they rarely spent more than a generation in that condition.

Now, the neighborhood decay is getting larger, not smaller, and we have had five generations since 1960 going nowhere.

It isn't because of media. They can't take the same piece of film footage and use it over and over. The fact is that there is a cultural disconnect that is driven by drugs, gangs, and a lack of moral imperative. A celebration of violence, of gang dominance, and unrestrained pleasure seeking. No boundaries, no responsibilities. Entitlement. Arrogance. Anger. Unwillingness. Lawlessness. Abandonment. Ignorance.

That's a big job, and it starts with role models that are not reflections of the current problems.

Like I said, you first have to change hearts and minds. Who, I ask, will stand up in the black community and admit that the emperor has no clothes?

Who?

 

[Capt. Tex]

Ok, I think you're a little out of your league here. The media had a big part in what people think of others. Like I said, it's all about perceptions. I don't care if the first black boy scout sat next to you in the 60's or not. Hence the "my best friend is black" statement. The media has played a huge role in portraying minorities as criminals, thugs, what have you. Granted, the current "role models" such as rap stars, sports figures who keep getting busted, etc. isn't helping matters but the entire black community isn't in total shambles like you so describe. If you think that it is, I'm willing to bet it's because of something you saw in the media. Maybe not yesterday or the day before, but that image, whatever it is has stuck in your mind ever since. They don't have to play the same piece of film footage over and over, they just have to play the RIGHT piece of footage once and the damage is done.

That's it, I'm out. You all can post and act like you care what happens in inner cities but you and I both know that nothing will be accomplished by posting messages.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

All IMHO....

TechRep,

The factor that you need to be looking at is SocioEconomics in our society, not just skin color. Poverty is directly related to crime, and it just happens to be that most black people, or people of color fall into this category. Take a look around your airline, for instance.

What are the backgrounds of the people flying the airplanes? How about the people loading bags and cleaning the planes? Notice a glaring difference in our salaries? There is a difference in our skin colors, but look past that and see that most pilots are educated (college educated), while our rampers and cleaners proabably are not (high school dropouts or high school grads).

Notice where the good schools are usually located? In the suburbs, where it is generally more expensive to live. Even if a person makes it to college, if they are a first generation student from their family, they will have a higher rate of dropout than those of us who have had family members graduate from college. Role models are important for all of us, and unfortunately there is a vicious cycle working against most inner city children.

Go to any large inner city and look at the living conditions for the majority of these folks, especially public housing. And we complain about our crappy crashpads. When this is all you know, it is hard to realize that there is more out there for you. And yes, a fortunate number of people do make it out of the inner cities, graduate from college, and earn high paying salaries.

As far as this problem being "fixed", I doubt it will ever be perfect because we live in a Capitalistic Society which rewards those who get ahead in life, and stay ahead. We're all fighting for a piece of the pie here, and somebody will "win" and somebody will "lose."

 

[TechRep]

Thanks for all the great replys and I have learned much. This brought into light some issues I never took into account, much wisdom.

Will I be able to effect change? Probably not, but my attitude on this subject has definetly changed.

TechRep

 

[TechRep]

I encourage any race, creed or ethnicity to better themselves, if that’s at ABX or ATI more power too yaw!

The point of this thread was more profound then just the topic. Many old negative racial feelings and stereotypes still exist. Today’s youth are beginning to explore these very sensitive issues through meaningful dialogue and seek answers.

My son brought up this topic and together we will discuss race relations. They actually discuss such issues in school now instead of burying their head.

TechRep

 

[Timebuilder]

As far as this problem being "fixed", I doubt it will ever be perfect because we live in a Capitalistic Society which rewards those who get ahead in life, and stay ahead. We're all fighting for a piece of the pie here, and somebody will "win" and somebody will "lose."

The basic idea is to have everyone become willing to engage in the competition, and to have everyone see the competition as the worthwhile foundation of a free society.

If you have entire segments being unwilling to compete on a legal and educational basis, you have allowed a dedicated underclasss to form. That's much more a cultural problem than an economic one.

I daresay that you can go to the worst school with the oldest textbooks, and if you show a couple of teachers that you are willing to excell and do your best, your WILL get assistance.

 

[FN FAL]

I think this fits into the discussion...

http://www.jsonline.com/homes/build/mar04/218801.asp

Josey Heights houses would be just a mile from city's center
By TOM DAYKIN
[email protected]
Posted: March 31, 2004
A $10 million central city housing development, featuring new homes starting at $175,000, is planned for downtown professionals who want to live near their jobs.

The 53-unit house and condo project, which would be called Josey Heights, would continue the revitalization of the neighborhood in an area bordered by W. Lloyd, W. Brown, N. 12th and N. 14th streets, developers said Wednesday.

Unlike other area housing developments, Josey Heights developers would't use grants and low-interest loans to entice home buyers to an area that had been battered by neglect and crime. The development's partners believe the project can succeed without such subsidies - which city officials said is evidence of the neighborhood's recovery.

The homes would be marketed to middle-class couples, especially those who work downtown, which is a mile southeast of the site, said George Calaway, a Shorewest Realty broker and a Josey Heights partner.

Josey Heights would create an affordable alternative for such families, Calaway said.

"Not everyone can afford a condo starting at $300,000," he said, referring to other downtown condo projects.

The two- and three-bedroom Josey Heights homes would have selling prices ranging from $175,000 to $225,000, said Jeff Rodman, a project partner and Milwaukee developer. It would feature 37 single-family homes and 16 townhouse-style condominiums, each ranging from 2,100 square feet to 2,500 square feet, said Rodman's wife, Gaurie, another partner and an urban planner at Planning and Design Institute Inc.

Josey Heights would be built on a portion of the land that was cleared between 1968 and 1970 for the Park West Freeway before that project was canceled.

About 70 homes once stood on the site, Acting Mayor Marvin Pratt said. Their demolition is among the reasons cited for the surrounding neighborhood's long decline, as increased crime, disappearing jobs and other urban ills took their toll.

In recent years, some parts of the area have changed for the better.

The CityHomes development has created about 90 homes on vacant land between W. Walnut, W. Brown, N. 20th and N. 23rd streets since 1995, said Jim Sayers of the Department of City Development. Those homes, subsidized with low-interest mortgages, originally sold in the mid-$70,000 range. They now have assessed values generally between $110,000 and $126,000, according to city records.

Meanwhile, the Lindsay Heights development created around 110 modular homes between W. Walnut, W. Locust, N. 12th and N. 20th streets since 1997, with 40 more homes planned, Sayers said. Many of those homes, selling for around $125,000, have come with $10,000 grants for buyers.

Also, dozens of neighborhood homes have been built by the non-profit group Habitat for Humanity and then sold for below-market prices.

The Josey Heights developers say they'll seek buyers looking for an urban lifestyle without providing low-interest loans, grants or below-market prices. They said concerns about crime in the area are overblown, and they cite the continued growth of Lindsay Heights as proof of the area's vitality.

"These are owner-occupied homes," said Julie Solochek, a Milwaukee real estate investor who along with her husband, Sheldon, is a Josey Heights partner. "These people care about what happens in their neighborhood."

The Department of City Development is proposing $1.6 million to pay for new streets, sidewalks, sewer lines, water lines and streetlights to serve the development, said department spokeswoman Roseann St. Aubin. The money would be repaid through property tax revenue generated by Josey Heights, a common method of financing public development infrastructure.

The 7.3-acre Josey Heights site is now a play field that city development officials said is underused. A proposal to sell the city-owned site for $75,000 will be considered at the Redevelopment Authority's April 15 meeting.

Construction is to begin this fall, with the homes completed by the end of 2005.

From the April 1, 2004 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel