BKL (ASEL) Departure 'O Death

[ShyFlyGuy]

They've been doing that for years! One possiblity is not to do approaches into BKL. The other is to only do so when the lake is frozen solid. I send my students out to the lake to practice touch-and-goes, since some of them couldn't hit pavement in a parking lot to save their lives! That gives them a good couple-hundred square miles of property to try to get the wheels on first.

I was joking about that last part. But when you're doing approaches, I'd rather get the right turn 360 than the left turn 180 off the runway with 300' ovc.

Shy

 

[LittleLearBoy]

I flew in and out of there for years hauling checks in a Lear. At 3AM they did the samething to me. The only different was I wanted to climb and they kept me low for a few miles for what reason I do not know.

Do they have the date posted yet for the Air Show??

LLB

 

[nosehair]

What if he put something like "no over water" in the remarks section when he files?

Remarks do not get forwarded to ATC. Tell them on the radio.
I am not familiar with BKL, but I know some busy places will give you a hard time over it, but some places will respect your request to not fly over open water. You just have to tell them.
...bottom line is, you are PIC and responsible.

 

[wmuflyguy]

What if he put something like "no over water" in the remarks section when he files?

That never seemed to work, I got sent across the lower part of lake michigan by Chicago approach, well beyond power off gliding distance with a student. I wasn't happy, but they kept giving me unable BS whenever i asked for southerly vector.

 

[nosehair]

I got sent across the lower part of lake michigan by Chicago approach, well beyond power off gliding distance with a student. I wasn't happy, but they kept giving me unable BS whenever i asked for southerly vector.

...(heavy sigh)...yeah, I know. It ain't easy buckin' traffic. Every body else does, why the heck can't you? I mean, that's what the controllers think...and re-act to...but, you have the right....and the responsibility, and the authority. It's up to you tp use it. I've done it. Be nice, give them a heads up, because, you know, they're not used to it, and maybe you'll have to write a report, but, you have the right and authority.
FAR 91.3(a)&(b) is your legal responsibilty & authority.
(a) holds you accountable, (b) gives you authority.
"In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency."
FAR 91.123 also give authority. (b)"Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to ATC instructions..."
You should be prepared to have to comply with (d), submit a report, but, you have the right...and responsibility.

 

[Metro752]

When I was doing my primary training, my CFI told me he had this exact same thing happen to him out of BKL on a cold winter night, and he didn't have engine problems, but he was almost imagining hearing the engine run rough.

 

[machaf]

Remarks do not get forwarded to ATC. Tell them on the radio.

In my area they do. MSP center. We put what approaches we want to do in the remarks section. They clear us for that.

Also the local approach controllers want "single engine ILS" in remarks when we are doing SE Approaches so they have space properly.

Maybe its just a local thing here...

 

[aerobaticspilot]

Haha its becuase cle center and approach have no idea what they are doing... just say you cant go out over the water.... they should work with you and if they dont.... go vfr

 

[minitour]

Haha its becuase cle center and approach have no idea what they are doing... just say you cant go out over the water.... they should work with you and if they dont.... go vfr

VFR out of Lakefront is an even worse option. It's a tremendous headache.

If they're departing 24R/L out of BKL, you either bust the Bravo (cuz they won't clear you through/in it right away due to arrivals from the North turning Base just west of BKL) or they send you over the lake...it's not much, but it's beyond glide distance at that altitude (the shelf is decently low too...2000'? haven't seen a TAC/SAC in a while).

If they're departing 6R/L out of BKL, they want you at 2,000' and a heading that takes you right through CGF's Delta. Now, the catch is...you're not inside the Class B airspace (you're under it) and you can remain clear of the Class D airspace AND class B on a more direct easterly heading. Lots of people forget/don't realize you don't have to talk to the CLE controllers (and therefore listen to their "xyz heading" instruction) if you're not going in their airspace.

Personally...I prefer to go IFR and tell them I need higher and/or a turn towards shore. If I've GOT to go VFR (equipment "situations"), I'll prolly just talk to CGF and get to transition thier class D...but depending on what's going on there (Flight Options) it can be busy too.

Really...we need a VFR Corridor there. Just one leading from the west side of CGF/east side of BKL all the way south down to ACO (Akron VOR/DME). Would be much simpler.

IMHO

-mini