Bill in congress would boost retirement age

[General Lee]

You don't? Then I better quit working out sooo much and should probably spend more time on this forum!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[klhoard]

Yeah, yeah, I got my accidents mixed up, but y'all know what I meant.
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I refuse to let the facts get in the way of fanning the flames . . .
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[Spooky 1]

No question about it General, you have way to much time on your hands. Must be on permanent party reserve over there Widgetville.

I notice that most of the Delta guys/gals that I see around the terminals these days look pretty young. Can't say I have seen most of them. Rode home the other night from HNL and the Capt. was a F/O that I used to fly with often. Said his new sen.# was 90. I don't thnk the guy is 55 yet. At least there are some very small tangable benefits to the overhaul that poor Delta has gone through so far. As a mtter of fact heard about a guy who was 54 years old and had a number less than 15 on the list!

 

[leardrivr]

Lets see! The union would benifit from the age increase with a huge increase in dues recieved. However the airlines payroll for senior pilots would just bring more concessions and cut backs in services. I wonder who's going to win this battle?

 

[Spooky 1]

Well since most if not all ALPA contracts cap out at 12 years I would not imagine that the cost differentials would be that great. Other than those flying the Capt. entry level B737,MD80's there would be little if any impact to the system. The fact is a 12 year Capt makes the same (hourly wage) as a 25 year+ plus Capt. on the same equipement.

None of this really makes any difference in the right or wrongs regarding this issue. It was never an economic issue in the begining and it should not be now. Either you can cut it beyond age 60, or if there are reasons you cannot, then you should be out of the game.

 

[100LL... Again!]

I predict that the costs will still be higher overall.

More sick calls are likely from pilots as they age. It may be statistically insignificant, however.

 

[Echopapa]

While I DO NOT support the over 60 rule change some points to consider:

1. It is cheaper for airlines to raise the age. If an airline has 300 capt widebody slots before the age 60 rule change they will still have 300 capt widebody slots after. Most of those 300 captains at age 60 have already maxed out their payrate, 12 -15 years of service. So for a company prespective, a 60 YO Capt with 15 years service is equal in pay to 65 YO Capt with 20 years of service. What companies do care about is that they don't have to pay for 5 years of retirment benefits. In essence, this will allow the airlines that still have a defined benefit plans to get a 5 year reprieve from retirement payouts. When you finally retire at 65 you have 5 years less of benefits to collect before death.

2. The ALPA furloughee's don't have a voice in this process. Guess what...if your a furloughee from United you don't get a vote at ALPA. But a 60 YO Capt who wants to work 5 more years does. What this means is that the entire voice of furloughed pilots at ALPA are completely unrepresented.

In my opinion, sadly, it is only a matter of time until this law is changed.

I honestly think that anyone who has not planned for their retirement while making 200K/ year and now wants to change the benefits for the entire industry is selfish and ignorant.

Just some advice for a 60 YO Capt who can't afford to reitre: sell the condo in florida, sell your plane, take back the BMW your daughter driving, quit having an affiar with that FA, and put that money toward your retirement.

 

[klhoard]

If you work until 65, you won't have much use for your retirement anyway. . .

 

[Bellerophon]

Career advice stick with the first wife and kids. Get a snipped when your 39 and live like your sitting in one seat lower than you are. Then you wont need to work until your 65. Oh yea don't vote in a 40% pay increase if they have only funded your retirement to the tune of $55 million since 1997 and all 14k pilots expect a $2 million dollar retirement from an employee owned company.

 

[G100driver]

Career advice stick with the first wife and kids. Get a snipped when your 39 and live like your sitting in one seat lower than you are. Then you wont need to work until your 65.

Finally, a voice of reason in this arguement.

 

[scabseeker]

I wonder how many guys would be in favor of the retirement age increase if it only applied to guys who get hired at a 121 carrier after say June 2005?

I foresee support for the change dwindling.

 

[skykid]

Finally, a voice of reason in this arguement.

At least the first wife and living below your means is a voice of reason, the rest is a voice of extreme exaggeration.

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

Will we have this argument again in 3 or 5 years if this changes? 5 years ago they wanted to change the law because of a pilot shortage, now its disrcrimination. My upgrade will go from 6 to 9-10 years if this happens, and all of my retirment plans for age 55 are out the window, think of the earnings potential of that extra captain pay over a 25 year period in my 401k. Ya see its all about me, as it should be for everyone, but dont change the f-cking rules in the middle of the game. Typical of a pilot nearing retirement, I have mine so screw you , gear up and shut up for 3-4 more years flying with captain makers---sh-t. The only way to make this happen fairly is make them FOs after 60, lets see what kind of replies I get from those that want this law changed? Jim Smyth, anyone? I urge everyone to call your reps in DC, took me only 20 minutes today.

 

[Bellerophon]

Well If you have children after your 40 you will have to put them through college during retirement.

Are my number incorrect? Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[canyonblue]

Both sides of the arguments on FI.com are "It's all about me". This law will change within the next 10 years, so both sides, start getting your life ready for it now, so in the future we won't have to listen how "both" sides got screwed. There are some things that can't be forseen, but to think age 60 would never get overturned is living in a fantasy world.

 

[FoxHunter]

Will we have this argument again in 3 or 5 years if this changes? 5 years ago they wanted to change the law because of a pilot shortage, now its disrcrimination. My upgrade will go from 6 to 9-10 years if this happens, and all of my retirment plans for age 55 are out the window, think of the earnings potential of that extra captain pay over a 25 year period in my 401k. Ya see its all about me, as it should be for everyone, but dont change the f-cking rules in the middle of the game. Typical of a pilot nearing retirement, I have mine so screw you , gear up and shut up for 3-4 more years flying with captain makers---sh-t. The only way to make this happen fairly is make them FOs after 60, lets see what kind of replies I get from those that want this law changed? Jim Smyth, anyone? I urge everyone to call your reps in DC, took me only 20 minutes today.

Just in case you failed to notice the rules have changed. The pensions of USAIR, UAL have been terminated, all others are under the same threat. The remainder do not, or ever had a "A" plan.

BTW 9-10 years for upgrade sounds good to most of the guys reaching 60 these days. Many spent that amount of time as a 727 S/O before getting to fly a window seat, let alone Captain. I'm one of the lucky ones, took the first opportunity to upgrade to Captain, 16 years. Of course one could argue it was just eight years, eight years working and eight years of furlough.

 

[Jim Smyth]

The only way to make this happen fairly is make them FOs after 60, lets see what kind of replies I get from those that want this law changed? Jim Smyth, anyone?

Well in a hundred years from now when everyone lives to be 100 years old it would be pretty silly to make us still retire at 60 Huh? By then we will have to wait until 80 to collect Social Security and 85 for Medicare. Seems real fair to me.

I think maybe we should look at this from a different view. Lets say we only start hiring new hire FO's at the age of say 35. No one gets to a major before that. That way they would have some real life experiance and would have matured.

 

[michael707767]

I'll gladly go at 60, but it's not fair to deny me the retirement benefits every other worker in America enjoys when they retire.

AKAAB

Not true. There are fire departments and police depts all over this country with retirement ages 60 or younger.

 

[Spooky 1]

Gents, fair or unfair depending on your point of view and status, this thing will not come down based on financial criteria, just as it was not originaly imposed with regards to any financial impact considerations in the first place. The airline retirement programs or contracts were just a by-product of the new rule. It is simply a question of whether or not you are fit to fly at an age in excess of 60? That is how it was applied back in 1959 and that is how it will be sorted out this time. ALPA will have a revelation and see that the current crop of pilots are healthier etc.,therefore maybe we should let them fly beyond age 60. You watch, it will change within the next couple of years if not this time around.

 

[sandman2122]

Here's an idea

Here's an idea.

Let over 60 guys stay/come back on a B-Scale seniority list. Allthey get to do is walk arounds and pour coffee, they don't fly anddon't sit in any front seats. Finally they get paid $25 an hour!

I''ll vote for that!