Bigsky Airlines, Billing Mt

[T-handle]

?

 

[gqmetrodriver]

The point to my post was just as I said.

We didn't ask for any of this. Do you think we have some sort of choice? I'm in my 3rd year fo and not crazy about starting over either.

 

[Saabslime]

Question for "GQ". Have you guys in fact already signed the deal offered by Mesaba? Was it or is it going to be a membership ratification or a decision made by your MEC? There are almost a thousand pilots here at Mesaba who would love some info on this issue. We are being left completely in the dark over here and info is very hard to come by. Thanks.......

P.S.....Also wondering about some of the specifics of the contract. Like I said, ANY info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[gqmetrodriver]

Voting is still going on. I'll post more when I know it- likely not till tomorrow.

 

[othello]

word over here at Mesaba just heard that the BS Deal has been made offical. Any conformation from the BS side. I have yet to see it in writting so it could be a roumor. Details of the contract please

 

[T-handle]

mesaba2425= xjmgt


go do your job instead of wasting your time on aviation forums.....

 

[CWASaab]

thanks

Voting is still going on. I'll post more when I know it- likely not till tomorrow.

Hey gqmetro,

thanks for any info you can provide.

And from the perspective of an XJ guy with 5+ years in, and just as much to lose as anyone else here, we are not all looking to 'knock some sense' into you guys. As you are aware emotions are running pretty high over here.

I am more than ready to have you guys onboard as part of the mesaba family, but I think it needs to be done in the right way; one list. And for everyone's sake I want to see you guys flying under the kind of contract you deserve, an industry leading deal on all fronts (compensation, work rules, R&I, etc.) just like what we are fighting for here, and have been for 1 year, 3+ months, we need to have the same contract (one list, by seniority date).

The details of what Holdings wants you folks to accept clearly will provide an avenue for future whipsaw tactics (NWA is especially fond of this instrument of labor torture), and YOU WILL face the same fate as what we are dealing with right now. Can you tell from the posts here how much fun it is to deal with these labor-bashing, NWA-installed corporate pirates?

The requirements of the deal (rates for ALL aircraft classes) and the hurry-up-or-else timing are designed to be overwhelming. Don't let them be. The deal allows all conditions to be waived, even the new contract requirements and it allows for the time period to be extended. For Holdings, 3.5 mil is nothing compared to what they could potentially save due to the implications of this deal on our contract. Chances are they will not walk away if you guys take your time to get the right deal, they need this threat against us way too much.

I know the story you have been told is that this is the only way, but don't buy the hype.

All of us in the regional level, even you, need to maintain the 'pattern bargining' that has been achieved recently, our futures, even yours, depends on doing so.

You have probably seen my first post in this thread, and I am still very interested in hearing answers to those questions about your current contract, for my own benefit, any info is greatly appreciated.

CWASaab

there is also a rumor going around that prior to joining the UTU you guys tried to get ALPA, but that they said 'not interested', any truth to that fable?

 

[othello]

I know for fact that 4 years ago BigSky Airlines was rejected by ALPA. "They didn't meet their requirements." Whether that ment enough pilots or revenue I don't know, but nonetheless ALPA didn't want to take them in. 4 years ago BigSky was about the same 16-18 Metros and 80-100 pilots that they are right now.
4 years ago UTU and their 140,000 members accepted the BS pilot group and from what I here are fully backing them in their negotiations with Mesaba holdings.

Now that BS and their 80 pilots can help or hurt XJ and the entire NWA family everyone is pissed that they're not ALPA?

Sorry but the BS pilots have done nothing wrong.

ALPA and their 55,000 members screwed this one up 4 yrs. ago.

 

[hatchetjack]

Big Sky

I'm a Big Sky pilot and the main reason for me posting this is to try and keep the Mesaba guys informed off all the rumors going around here. One of the first things I will say is that the contract we voted on (and still voting on) is supposedly about the same as Mesas and Pinnacles. We have duty rig, 28 day months, and pretty standard stuff. If you ask me specifics I'll do my best to try and let you know the official stuff.

MY OPINION AND TO MY UNDERSTANDING....
1. Supposedly the contract has enough votes to be approved but they have to get all the votes in. (we are a small company and everybody knows everybody so that's how we hear it has already passed)
2. We will not fly any established Mesaba routes especially during the strike. (written in the contract)
3. Have heard that we could be flying Dash8's by Feb, RJ's in as little as 6 months, or still flying metros in 2 years.
4. We have tried to join ALPA several times but turned down because we weren't big enough.
5. We are union. (UTU)
6. Overall we have a bunch of good pilots who sincerely care about the Mesaba pilots and the contract we get and the effect on the industry.
7. Rumor has it we will contract out to whoever and be based wherever.
8. We are a small company that was not doing well financially but don't believe managements pressure of saying we will be out of business if we don't sign this contract. (ask any pilot who's been around if he hasn't heard that one)

Tons and tons of rumors going around and I don't believe any of them until I see it happen.

Big Sky cares a great deal about the Mesaba pilots.

I don't know who the other big sky pilot is on this board but like him, I will be happy to answer any specific questions that you have and as soon as I hear something I will let you know.

 

[CWASaab]

thanks

hatchetjack,

thanks for the update. I, for one, do appreciate hearing from inside the big sky group.

As far as info goes, the more detailed the better. What is the value of the rig, and is it just duty or is there a trip-rig, or min day value, or both? Any type of company funded retirement plan? What kind of company match are you looking at for a 401K? What are the per diem rates? What are the actuall pay rates? I could go on and on.

But here are the bigger ones; Did the FO seat lock stay intact? Duration, is it going to be seven years? Did you guys agree to arbitration? Any of these would be a huge blow to the pattern of recent contracts.

As far as the strike stuff goes, sounds nice, but not sure it will matter much. By the time the NMB releases us BSA could be well entrenched and the damage would be done. Hopefully not, but who knows.

CWASaab

 

[T-handle]

Re: Big Sky

THANK YOU!

Regarding #2: BS will NOT fly ANY established Mesaba routes??? Are you sure about that? Wow, perhaps some good news for a change.... And it sounds like Holdings is expecting a strike (soon?) which isn't surprising but not to jump to conclusion, you said "the strike" so it implies we are going to strike and Holdings is planning way in advance.

#3 Regardless of what Holdings/NWA plans to have you fly, BS will grow, whether it be Metros, Dash 8s, or CRJs. That is Paul Foley's intent of the purchase. To operate a "low cost operator" and profit BIG time (and to use those profits to go buy another airline in 5-7 years). But since you mentioned BSA will not fly Mesaba routes, I wonder where the growth/expansion plans to be if not in MSP, DTW or MEM?? I know NWA has airlink "affiliates" out of NWA hubs: LAX and BOS...... hmmmm Was Pinnacle ever mentioned???

#4 It's ironic that ALPA ignored BSA because you are too small but now with everything at stake I bet ALPA will be knocking at your front door in Billings assuming the contract is signed.

#6 I apologize for coming off harsh and bitter in my earlier posts. I didn't mean to threaten any BS pilots directly. The majority of the XJ pilots are POed and morale is at its lowest I have ever seen. But solidarity seems to be the only thing keeping us together and focused. We welcome any airline to fly alongside us, as long as our jobs and livelihoods are not threatened, especially in time of our furloughs while Holdings plans to grow another airline. I'm sure by now you have seem a glimpse of how Mesaba Holdings and NWA operate and it ain't a pretty sight.

Please keep us informed, as we are completely in the dark about this as probably BSA is. thx

 

[Simon Says]

MESABA2425 IS A MEMBER OF THE MANAGEMENT TEAM!!!!!!!

Please disregard what he has to say. Whatever it might be he will try to drive a wedge between Big Sky and Mesaba.

For all of the pre airline folks that are trying to get into the airline industry. These are the kinds of people that will be your supervisors.

Big Sky folks, be aware of anyone that claims to be a Mesaba Pilot with a register date after AUG 2002. Welcome to the Mesaba Aviation......I mean Holdings fiasco.

 

[Stallion]

Hey Mesaba2425 why don't you stop criticizing T-Handle. I promise you he speaks for all of the Mesaba pilots. Maybe if your management buddies would share some info with us we wouldn't need to vent on this forum but untill that happens this is the best way to get the word out so lay off. We don't need your management propoganda here. We get enough of that from Foley and his cronies when we are at work.

 

[T-handle]

We have pilot furloughs and employee layoffs while management gets raises and bonuses. We expect them to run an airline.

Now that we know where all of management's salary increases/bonuses are going: spending time on aviation forums and messing with us, we can file a violation of Status Quo.

 

[hatchetjack]

Big Sky

I've been flying for a few days and will try and get some hard copies of contracts, pay scales, and other things that are at the top of my head.

I have no idea where we are going to expand but RUMOR has it that Delta is pulling out of several routes in the Northwest and that is a likely place but I don't really believe it.

AS I UNDERSTAND IT...

Big Sky's maintenance is holding up things. They have not agreed on the contract for them. Don't know what is holding them up.

Nothing has been posted officially about the pilots vote but once again still keep hearing that it passed with no problems.

I will try and post more hard contract stuff tomorrow.

(Thanks for apologizing T-handle)

 

[hatchetjack]

Big Sky

Talked to one of our guys here at Big Sky and he says that your head of the Union has a copy of Big Sky's contract. I think he said his name was Tom Worley (sp) but I'm not sure.

1. First year captain in an rj at Big Sky will be 50.21$ or so. (if we get rjs) Goes up approximately 3% after that.
2. FOs start around 20 something bucks then 2nd year goes up to lower 30s.

Big Sky contract highlights....
Metro FO and Captain pay in order of years....
17.02$ 29.24
18.89 31.49
20.74 32.34
22.60 33.22
and so on and so on...

We were paid during training and put up in a hotel. Some classes doubled up on rooms and some didn't but I think it's pretty standard for now.

We have 401K

1 year training contracts for FOs and Captains

72 hour monthly guarantee

reserve is 4.41


If on reserve and fly you into scheduled day off you are compensated 3 hours or trip length, whichever ishigher.

Draft is 130%
Premium is 115%

Duty Rig--"A pilot shall receive one hour of pay for each two hours "duty time" as defined blah blah blah

Per diem effective Jan 1 will be 1.40. (1.35 now)

Training per diem will be 1.40 Jan 1.

Paid for extra legs on our flights

Reimbursed 40$ for medical exam and ekg

If our trip cancels for wx or mx we are still paid.

Captains flying first officer positions are paid capt pay.

Deadhead will receive fifty percent flight pay for the scheduled block time of the deadhead.

Vacation at 3.38 per month
After 5 years it's 5.08 per month

Sick time at 4.0 per month

Holiday pay at 4.41

We have part time pilots. Not too common in the industry I think.
Pilots that have been with company for more than a year and give 2 weeks notice can remain part time, meaning they can get a job at Polar and then go find out they don't like being away from home then come back and work for Big Sky. Nice thing to have and relatively common around here.

Pilots get 175$ initially for uniform allowance and 100$ for each year after that.

That obviously wasn't everything but some of the highlights.

I haven't heard anything else in awhile about Mesaba and RJs and all that good stuff. I'll let you know if I hear something.

 

[T-handle]

hatchetjack

Thanks for the numbers! The bigger question the Mesaba pilots want to know is: will BigSky being flying Mesaba (or even Pinnacle) established routes and/or current XJ airplanes(Saab or Avro)?

You had posted something earlier about it and there is an unconfirmed rumor at the Mesaba ALPA msg. board that there was a "last minute" deal/clause throw in just before the contract was signed.

 

[DoinTime]

Wow....if those were the highlights I would hate to see the drawbacks.

 

[hatchetjack]

Big Sky

To my understanding we are not going to be flying any of your routes. Also haven't heard anything about flying Saabs or Avros. Everything seems to have quieted down here lately. No new rumors flying and things have kind of died down.

Not much else to report on this end.

 

[T-handle]

Another battle won!! (online)

We got rid of mesaba2425 aka MGT. I don't know if my complaint worked or if he/she deleted their account but either way, they backed down and mesaba2425 is no longer with us and the posts have been deleted. Good job XJ pilots! Informational picketing was a success today, and fun! Keep up the solidarity!


Informational picketing links:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/3427632.html

http://www.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=847