Big cuts at Delta

[michael707767]

Just heard about the message to employees. Doesn't look good. Less jobs for sure. I hope this works out.

 

[General Lee]

He never said which groups, and the pilots are currently under staffed due to all of the retirements since May. We do not know how many will or would be cut, and that still has to be looked at and bargained at the table with our union.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

He never said which groups, and the pilots are currently under staffed due to all of the retirements since May. We do not know how many will or would be cut, and that still has to be looked at and bargained at the table with our union.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
I agree, he does not say. But I would bet at a minimum, for the pilots, the recalls stop. I'm sure the 732s are gone. I bet we end up with around 5000 pilots, some coming from furloughs, some from early retirements.

 

[DAL737FO]

General,
I agree, he does not say. But I would bet at a minimum, for the pilots, the recalls stop. I'm sure the 732s are gone. I bet we end up with around 5000 pilots, some coming from furloughs, some from early retirements.

Well I guess that means BK because old Jerry can't just stop the recalls. It's going to get very intersting around the puzzle palace.

Furloughed Delta pilot
current Freight dawg
regretting the decision to turn down SWA every day of his life.

 

[michael707767]

Well I guess that means BK because old Jerry can't just stop the recalls. It's going to get very intersting around the puzzle palace.

Furloughed Delta pilot
current Freight dawg
regretting the decision to turn down SWA every day of his life.

And you don't think the MEC would negotiate away the furlough recall? I think you are fooling yourself if you think the recall will survive the concessions.

 

[General Lee]

I hope they (the recalls) survive, and I will NOT vote them out of coming back.


As far as the 737s leaving, they will probably leave as their leases are up, and some aren't up until 2008. I bet we will order a new, more efficient 100 seater with our concession money. I think Delta is playing hardball with airports over gate leases, and DFW and SLC are being squeezed. A friend from SLC called me and told me that she saw the Utah Governor on TV saying that she would do anything to keep Delta there. I bet a lot of that is going on right now. We will just have to see what happens in the next few days, and how Dalpa handles it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[michael707767]

I hope they (the recalls) survive, and I will NOT vote them out of coming back.

One thing we agree on. I will not screw the furloughs. Anythign that does not include the recall schedule is a no vote from me.

 

[Vortilon]

5000 pilots? I'm 7600 and change and wouldn't be 6000 until 2011. 5000 around 2014.

Oh well. It was great 18 months.

 

[lowecur]

Just heard about the message to employees. Doesn't look good. Less jobs for sure. I hope this works out.

Can you elaborate?

The talk about not shrinking the airline to profitability must be out the window. If the possibility of BK is out the window because of the lack of viable DIP exit financing, then the new DL sounds like it will be smaller, streamlined, and more efficient. This needs to be jumped on quickly to allow the airline to have any chance of long term survival.

BK still would have been a better solution at this point, as the excess baggage of the liabilities will still exist even if many are renegotiated. It would have also allowed the company the luxury of time to preserve many jobs. It sounds like things need to be cut to the bone in a hurry.

 

[General Lee]

Grinstein wants to avoid Chap 11 believe it or not. But, he wants $1 billion a year out of us. I don't know what that will mean in terms of pilot cuts or cost cuts, and Dalpa will have to negotiate that. 5000 pilots? We may still lose many Capts due to a 35% pay cut, and we are short right now.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Nindiri]

Anything more about the MD-11 and cargo?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

If it goes to mass retirement, I would imagine the 400 and 777 would almost be grounded. General?

 

[lowecur]

If it goes to mass retirement, I would imagine the 400 and 777 would almost be grounded. General?

If they stay out of BK, those guys don't need to retire, unless a cash offer is made by DALPA on their pension outside of BK as part of the give-back.

 

[enigma]

BK still would have been a better solution at this point, as the excess baggage of the liabilities will still exist even if many are renegotiated.

Call me idealistic, but I don't see BK as a solution for anything except as a way to liquidate a failed company. Am I missing something, or does not BK screw the entities who loaned a company money? Would you be so quick to suggest BK if you were on the losing end of a loan?

I know, I know, business is business. But I just don't trust people think that shirking out of their obligations is an acceptable way to conduct business nor life.

enigma

 

[lowecur]

Here's the article from USA Today on Grinstein shrinking the airline.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2004-08-18-delta_x.htm

 

[FDJ2]

And you don't think the MEC would negotiate away the furlough recall? I think you are fooling yourself if you think the recall will survive the concessions.

John Malone, DMEC Chairman, stated when negotiating the recall rate, that any agreement on the recall rate would survive any subsequent agreement. We'll see, but my bet is that the recalls will continue.

 

[lowecur]

Call me idealistic, You are idealistic but I don't see BK as a solution for anything except as a way to liquidate a failed company. Am I missing something, or does not BK screw the entities who loaned a company money? Actually, 11 in most cases restructures and reduces debt over a longer period of time. Those contracts that are impossible to renegotiate because they no longer fit into the business model, are usually settled pennies on the dollar. Would you be so quick to suggest BK if you were on the losing end of a loan? If it meant I would get paid .50 cents on a dollar in 11, as opposed to 5 cents in 7, it makes sense.

I know, I know, business is business. But I just don't trust people think that shirking out of their obligations is an acceptable way to conduct business nor life. Don't confuse personal BK with business BK. Business BK tries to preserve the overall best interests of everyone concerned. 99% of the lenders will still do rather nicely for the forseeable future. Thankfully, because of BK, so will most of those companies and their employees that choose this path. enigma

.....

 

[thruthemurk]

Well I guess that means BK because old Jerry can't just stop the recalls. It's going to get very intersting around the puzzle palace.

QUOTE]

I used to think this way too. Then I watched UAL and USAir Alpa negotiate away thousands of pilot jobs to help protect the income of those who remained. I guarantee it is one of many chips on the table.

 

[General Lee]

Lowecur,


There may be a lot of pay cuts and layoffs, but that doesn't mean mainly pilots. The one thing pilots have on their side are the FARs (Fed Aviation Regs), concerning duty rigs, amount of flying per week, and per day. The flight Attendants do not have any of those. In fact, they can fly all day long, and fly like that all week long. Apparently they have a new bidding system that has given them excess stews---thanks to little or no regulations. That is something pilots still have, and that won't be taken away---unless the Jetblue guys still want to fly JFK to LGB turns.....



And FDJ2 is correct, Malone did state that, and it will be interesting to watch what he does in the next few days....


And, the rumor about the MD-11s and cargo still may come true. It would make sense, since it would involve "Long Haul" cargo ops, and it is something other Skyteam members do (like Air France, Korean, KLM, and NW). That rumor was circulating around the school house, so it may or may NOT be true. But, we still have 3 MD11s(out of 12 total??) that have leases until 2015, and absent a Chap 11 to break those leases, we will have to fly them.....






Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetblue320]

---unless the Jetblue guys still want to fly JFK to LGB turns.....



Bye Bye--General Lee

But hey, 2 outta 3 NYC airports!!

(sorry, had to barb ya on that one ole' Buddy!)

C yaaa