Beyond Netjets, Which Would You Choose? Another Hypothetical Question...

[johnsonrod]

Netjets seems to have the best package out there. Great pay, 100 domiciles, free healthcare, four meals paid-for per day on tour, three types of schedules, a varied fleet of advanced aircraft, etc.

So, hypothetically, if you were looking at the other fractionals or near-fractionals, how would you rank the following choices (if you could get hired at each and location did not matter because you would live in a domicile provided by each) and why:

XOJet
Citationshares
Flexjet

Again, just hypothetical situation and interested to hear pros/cons. Discuss...

 

[greygoose]

Oh come on, what's the matter with Flightoptions?

 

[gunfyter]

Citation Shares.

Basing,

Pay,

7&7 Schedule....

Stability... I believe will be operated by Cessna or if ever offered for sale would be bought by Netjets.

 

[SKYLAWYER]

CitationShares. We have our problems but things here have mostly changed for the better.
Pay will almost always be in line with the top of the industry, If you can't get on with NJ, I would guess CS has to be the next best gig in town.
1) Basing options are good, wih the company open to expansion.
2) No free crew meals, however, 55.20 a day in perdiem and whatever meal you choose is only 10dollars.
3) No rolling rest.
4) 2nd best pay in the industry. Great options for overtime (unlimited if available)
5) Good group of guys on the line to fly with.
6) Unlimited sick days (or no sick days depending on how you choose to look at it) Comapny has no sick day policy but simply says sick pilots will not be forced to make up any days. So far I have not heard of anyone having to makeup sick days.
7) Free Uniforms (including shoes and belts)

 

[johnsonrod]

CitationShares. We have our problems but things here have mostly changed for the better.
Pay will almost always be in line with the top of the industry, If you can't get on with NJ, I would guess CS has to be the next best gig in town.
1) Basing options are good, wih the company open to expansion.
2) No free crew meals, however, 55.20 a day in perdiem and whatever meal you choose is only 10dollars.
3) No rolling rest.
4) 2nd best pay in the industry. Great options for overtime (unlimited if available)
5) Good group of guys on the line to fly with.
6) Unlimited sick days (or no sick days depending on how you choose to look at it) Comapny has no sick day policy but simply says sick pilots will not be forced to make up any days. So far I have not heard of anyone having to makeup sick days.
7) Free Uniforms (including shoes and belts)

These are all great points about CS - very useful. Obviously very happy to see CS "competitive" again. Happily for all of us applicants, Netjets, CS, Flexjet and XOJet appear to be reasonably close in terms of direct pay (though benefits like healthcare may not be the same).

Again, how would people rank the various choices? Not just their top choice... Avantair could also be thrown in the mix I guess but its pay package is not at the level provided by CS, Flexjet and XOJet. FLOPS can't compare on any level.

Just interested to hear non-pay and non-location related rationale for evaluating these choices. Why would you rank your choices in that particular order?

 

[SKYLAWYER]

I can't really rank the places that I don't actually work for except for being able to put NJ at #1. Since this applies to everyone except for NJ I can't comment about FlexJet or XO jet. I listed some non-pay items for your consideration above. Not to get sidetracked by pay because you are not using that as a comparison tool. I need to say one thing. When comparing pay make sure you don't just compare the salaries, but also the amount of work days per year that that salary is based on. I think you will start to see some diversions on the pay comparison at that point.

If you have anything specific that I could comment on I would be happy to help you.

 

[Heavy Set]

OK, I'll give it a shot. If location and base pay were not issues I would rank those choices as follows:

1. XOJet
2. Flexjet
3. Citationshares

I personally would rank XOJet first because the likelihood of upgrading quickly is there due to their expansion plans. Plus, I'd love to fly both the Citation X and the Challenger 300.

Next, I'd select Flexjet because I would like the opportunity to fly international (Europe and Hawaii) in either the CL300 or the CL604. Flying the Challenger 300 at some point would be a real incentive for me.

Citationshares would be a good choice too but I am a bigger fan of Bombardier products than Citation products (excluding the X) - that's my personal preference. All good choices given the recent pay raises, etc.

 

[JungleJett]

Nasa....

 

[captain dad]

Virgin Galactic maybe, but I haven't seen the contract.

However, when we take delivery of the QSST in 2025 it will be a coin toss again.

 

[CALRepublic]

I would go to:

1-FX (Challenger 300) my favorite Biz Jet, by far
2-CS
3-good corporate job

I had a conversation with a CS guy, he interviewed at NJ last week and got the job. Even with the pay increase, he still coming over. He's only giving up 1 year seniority at CS, so no big deal I guess. I wonder why he's coming over? I didn't ask.

 

[SKYLAWYER]

I would go to:

1-FX (Challenger 300) my favorite Biz Jet, by far
2-CS
3-good corporate job

I had a conversation with a CS guy, he interviewed at NJ last week and got the job. Even with the pay increase, he still coming over. He's only giving up 1 year seniority at CS, so no big deal I guess. I wonder why he's coming over? I didn't ask.

Because NJ is the best gig in town. Thats why we are not including them in this situation. Anyone with limited seniority or many more years to devote to the industry would be better off leaving any of the other fracs for NetJets.
Why is everyone ranking the companies based on aircraft they think are cool or want to fly? Read the board, educate yourself from some of the guys here who would fly a beech 1900 for good pay and great QOL.
The flex 8 and 6 and rolling rest issues do not sound like great QOL. 182 days a year or 202? I guarantee before your first recurrent the airplane will wear off. Flexjet has been addressing the needs of the pilot group recently. It has been slow but it has been happening. This definitely has to make them much more attractive. Still not number 1 . Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[flagshipper]

Why is everyone ranking the companies based on aircraft they think are cool or want to fly? Read the board, educate yourself from some of the guys here who would fly a beech 1900 for good pay and great QOL.
quote]


Yeah it is funny that just by reading the posts I can tell you how much experience these people have. Younger and or lower time guys are always about the equipment. They base everything on how cool the airplane is and don't hardly mention QOL. I think the happiest guys at CS are the few left in the CJ1 and the Bravo guys. They are making the same money as everyone else and work a whole lot less. One guy posted Flex over CS just because of the airplanes even though Flex guys work 30 more days a year for the same pay as CS. I would gladly give up the CL-300 for an extra month off a year. I know guys flying Barons for Labquest making 70k a year. They are not going anywhere because they know they have it good. Just my .02 cents

 

[SKYLAWYER]

Why is everyone ranking the companies based on aircraft they think are cool or want to fly? Read the board, educate yourself from some of the guys here who would fly a beech 1900 for good pay and great QOL.
quote]


Yeah it is funny that just by reading the posts I can tell you how much experience these people have. Younger and or lower time guys are always about the equipment. They base everything on how cool the airplane is and don't hardly mention QOL. I think the happiest guys at CS are the few left in the CJ1 and the Bravo guys. They are making the same money as everyone else and work a whole lot less. One guy posted Flex over CS just because of the airplanes even though Flex guys work 30 more days a year for the same pay as CS. I would gladly give up the CL-300 for an extra month off a year. I know guys flying Barons for Labquest making 70k a year. They are not going anywhere because they know they have it good. Just my .02 cents

Good post.

 

[flyzimex]

401k

Hey guys

I am looking to tale the leap into the frac industry and am of course happy to see the recent improvements.
To me a company's retirement plan plays a pretty heavy part in my "choice". I know the basics of NJ's and Flex's 401k plans like company match and max allowable percentage of annual salary. I would be very interested in knowing the same about CS and XOJet. Anyone here in the knows care to share?
Thanks..

/FlyZimex

 

[SKYLAWYER]

Hey guys

I am looking to tale the leap into the frac industry and am of course happy to see the recent improvements.
To me a company's retirement plan plays a pretty heavy part in my "choice". I know the basics of NJ's and Flex's 401k plans like company match and max allowable percentage of annual salary. I would be very interested in knowing the same about CS and XOJet. Anyone here in the knows care to share?
Thanks..

/FlyZimex

CS matches 100% of the first 6%. All regular earnings, overtime, and stipends are eligible. I believe full vesting is at 5 years.

 

[frapper]

How long is the estimated upgrade time at these other companies? NJA is obviously my first choice, but it would be nice to have a plan B. CS seems to be a decent 2nd pick. How's the QOL, sched, people, retirement, etc. there?

 

[captain dad]

NJA is at least three years if they keep going at the current pace of hiring. I think that is still a little optimistic. I think you could upgrade and pick the equipment you want instead of just taking the first available, within reason (400, ultra, xls, encore+, etc...), within five years at the latest. This is just an educated guess and all depends on three big things; aircraft purchases and deliveries, hiring rate, and continued expansion. Deliveries are still happening (no comment on the 4000), hiring is estimated at 400 to 450 for 2008, and we seem to be expanding for quite some time to come.

 

[finnjl]

Flex will be close to 3 years before long for upgrade

A CS FO told me he was also looking at 3 years for upgrade

 

[jtf]

I've got over 2 years now at NJA and I forsee at least another year and a half, maybe 2 before upgrade on first available- about 250 numbers between me and upgrade. I would guess at least 4 years for first available to a new hire and probably closer to 5 if we continue to grow at current pace for the next 5 years. I believe the union is advising newhires in basic indoc on about a 5 year wait. At least most of the fracs are finally paying FOs enough to wait.

 

[Fozzy]

Please help me with my math, but that 100% match of the first 6% is not that good.
$15500*6%=$930
So if you max out the company gives you $930?