Best place to get training

[DX Rick]

Where would one go? I have heard of a place in either SoCal or Texas that does training in a T-28 and or T-6.

 

[GenericPilot]

aerobatic training

I am assuming that you have little experience with warbirds or aerobatics. Here's some free advice. Take it for what it is worth.

The going rate for warbird type training is $600-700/hr for T-6 instruction and a bunch more for T-28 flying (if you can find it). $3500/hr for P-51 training.

Depends on what you are looking for. Basic Acro, warbird training, or continuation into competition aerobatics, airshow flying, or warbird formation ops.

The cheapest quality aerobatic training is going to set you back around $220/hr for a Super Decathlon and qualified instructor. Go get a taildragger endorsement first, then a full spin course, and after that do the aerobatics. Take a 10 hour aerobatics course. Spend around 3K to train and then start competing. After that, go fly a PItts or Extra once you understand the maneuvers. Get a fly buddy to team up with for your training, especially if it is out of town. Gets boring going somewhere by one's self for flight training.

Bottom line is that aerobatic flying is very expensive. No matter if you own, rent, or have a buddy with a plane. It takes significant time to get decent at flying the maneuvers and even longer to qualify to get on someone's insuranace. Sunrise Aviation has a good rental program. Commemorative Air Force offers opportunities to fly some less glamorous warbirds for a decent price (non aerobatics ops).

I've owned four aerobatic aircraft. The cheapest was a single seat experimental (midget mustang). Best bang for the buck (18-30K if you can find one). My single seat Pitts was the next cheapest (25K to buy/10GPH or $50 an hour/hangar:$150-250 a month/and $1900 a year for insurance). I spent around 5K on mx during a 3 year period. 7-10K a year to fly 100 hours. Had a partnerhsip on a Citabria that was very ecconomical. Owned a Luscombe in a partnership that was cheap too. My current airplane, a 2004 Super Decathlon, cost over $150/hr to operate as a business (training). I never had to do any major work on any of my planes (overhauls, recover, damage repair, etc).

Aerobatics is great in small doses and very expensive of you do it long term. Buy, fly, and sell can work out well if you do it over a 1-3 year period. One might get lucky and not have a lot of mx costs and get plenty of experience. However, hold onto a plane long enough and it will get expensive.

Good Luck and have fun.

Mike Lakin
www.wvpilot.com

 

[Rxflyer]

Great post by GP.

My acro experience is limited to a Super Decathlon, which does all the basic stuff just fine. More talented people can do a lot more !

You may want to check out the International Aerobatic Club site for some information. I think you can look for instructors there, too. www.iac.org

You may have heard of a guy named Rich Stowell who does a lot of unusual attitude training (in a Super D, I think). Quite the accomplished instructor. He's in CA, and his website is www.richstowell.com

In TX, Debbie Rihn-Harvey has a school. She's world-class acro. A friend of mine has gone there a few times, and raves about the school. www.harveyrihn.com

There's a lot of very qualified people out there teaching acro. Probably a lot more who THINK they are. Enjoy yourself !

 

[GenericPilot]

more acro stuff

I concur with RX flyer.

Figure out your budget. Determine if you can train locally or if you have to travel. I find that a 3 day trip is about all the aerobatic flying that I want to do. After 2 days of multiple aerobatic hops, I am ready for a break.

Find a person who is a good instructor and who takes the time to give proper academic/ground instruction. Flying competition or airshows does not necessarily make one a great flight instructor. Flying competition style aerobatics is just a style, not a requirement. However, after you get good at basic stuff, you may start to want to apply competition standards to your flying. Airshow style can be anything from lazy barnstorming maneuvers to intense competition style flying. In short, take it slow and learn all the basics before thinking of yourself as a potential competition or airshow pilot.
Have some fun with this stuff. Airplanes don't have to be flown upside down..it's just an expensive and possibly risky option.

My recommendation is to go cheap for your first 10 hours. Learn the basics, practice, and have fun. Then if you are still serious about it, go find a world class school and start shelling out the cash. Find a mentor and a coach and fly your heart out. It is very time consuming though, so plan smart.

IAC chapters...Go to a contest or IAC meeting. Volunteer. Meet the group. Ask basic questions. Find out who the smart old guys (champions or former champion types) are and ask them questions. Don't get drawn into the cult too quickly though. They love potential "volunteers" who can help with all the important grunt work. If your time is valuable, you won't hang around too many 3-4 days contests (I prefer to work and make money to fly on my own schedule). I have nothing against IAC, except that unless the chapter is in your own local area it can be very time consuming to go to meetings and contests. I'd rather spend a few days training with a coach/mentor than hanging around a bunch of contests.

Bottom line..go make some connections. Most guys are generous if you will help them with their planes. Be careful that you don't get hooked up with some crazy pilot who tries to kill you doing low level aerobatics in some junky old aerobatic airplane that isn't airworthy. I've met plenty of guys that I would not fly with. They talk the talk, but they may not be as good as they say they are.

An IAC chapter member that I knew taught himself acro, then advanced acro, then started doing low level stuff. He crashed his plane at a fly-in, and injured himself and his buddy. Pretty serious injuries and some pretty stupid pilots. Don't be like these guys.

My recs:
All the IAC schools listed on their website.

Best of Luck.

 

[stearmann4]

Rick,

Acro training and warbird checkouts are really two different animals. Especially when you're talking about a T-6, and ridiculously so when you're flying a T-28. I got my T-28 LOA(now type) from guy in Camarillo who is easily one of the most knowledgeable and sharpest instructors I've ever flown with military or otherwise. But as Mike said, you're looking at about $1,500-$1,800 an hour. in his airplane. That's easy to justify if your getting the type training required to buy/fly a T-28B/C, but if you just want to learn solid aerobatics, a 8KCAB will teach you plenty.

The 28 guy's name is Mark Matye and he teaches a super stall/spin syllabus in the T-28. In fact, all the "Bonanza" guys who start instruction with him get that the first couple of hours just so have an idea what they're getting themselves into with a bird like the 28. He says there's been more than one who decided to purchase a T-34 or SF-260 instead.

Mark flies an F8F and F6F for a museum. He also owned a T-6 for a number of years, as well as a Pitts S-1S, and performed professionally in a Christen Eagle.

In any case, that's the guy I'd recommend if you still want to pursue 28 training. Email me if you want his info.

Mike-

 

[VNugget]

http://www.wvfc.org/programs/warbird.html

These guys in San Carlos (SF Bay Area) have a T-6 online for under $300. It even says they'll rent it to you solo.