Best place for a forced landing?

[apcooper]

http://www.webrealite.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=179




If you were flying here where would you set it down if you lost the engine. I would say my number 1 choice would be just at the edge of the waves that come onshore as this looks like it would still give 50 tp 100 ft of clearance from the rock wall but still on a sandy beach. My next choice would be completly ontop of the rockbar in the flattest and smoothest area possible. After that my 3rd choice would be on the bay side of the rockbar in the smooth water. My last choice would be offshore on the ocean side several hundred yards offshore.

What do you think. Let the discussion begin.

 

[CX880]

I would hit the eject button

 

[midlifeflyer]

I like the airstrip that is 1/2 mile behind you.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

......best place is in the parking lot of a great bar or restaurant. Preferably a seafood restaurant.

 

[DCAinstructor06]

notice how smooth the water is on the right side of the photo? When the engine quits, It belongs to the insurance companies.

 

[LivestockTony]

Generally on a sandy beach, between the high tide and low tide line there will be a sideways gradient, above it can be more or less flat, so if it's deserted, that's where to land (just a soft field).

'Course, where I live you'd suck a five year old and his pregnant mom through your windmilling propeller, so the correct answer would be pretty much anywhere else.

 

[Gorilla]

In this photo, my #1 choice personally, without seeing more, would be to line up for a ditch off shore. Then, as the altitude decreases, perhaps a spit of packed sand would be more inviting. If going for the water, consideration is given as to undercarriage (up or down/fixed) and the swimming ability of my pax. Currents too might be an issue.

At least in large transports, I've often pondered "where do we go if this beast flames out and we cannot make an airport?" I think a ditching, to include lakes and rivers in the domestic U.S., is preferable to just about any other off-field attempt. The goal is to keep the hull from breaking up. Once the fuselage cracks open, it's going to ball up, roll, and the death toll would be grim. I think the odds of keeping the hull intact is much better in water than even a pasture or meadow. From my soaring days, what looks to be a sweet, smooth field often is full of hidden ditches and irregularities that would crack open the hull of an MD-80 or 737.

Of course with water you're going to drown some pax, but again, I think it's the lesser of evils there. Fewer dead.

Interesting pic and discussion.

 

[avbug]

I always cover forced landings and survival during a flight review, largely because the initial training is nearly universally inadequate, and hardly anybody ever thinks about it on a day to day basis.

Let me first say that if you're not prepared mentally and physically for survival before this occurs, then your chances aren't great. Physically means you can survive, you have the skills, knowledge, and understanding to survive, and you have the equipment necessary. Standing on a windswept freezing ridgeline in a t-shirt doesn't cut it, and you won't last long in the ocean without the ability to float and protect yourself from hypothermia.

In the picture provided, the most obvious choice is adjacent to the beach area, if indeed that's what it is. Water reduces your chances in many ways. Aircraft tend to break up in the water, sink, flip. Often you'll be inverted, or sinking in pieces. It can be violent. Judging height above the water should be assumed impossible, and often is much more difficult than you might think. (Go get some seaplane training and judge for yourself). Your survival time in the water is very short. Unless there's a boat there to pick you up, you had better be able to get into a raft, or be wearing materials that both help you float, and stave off hypothermia. Drowning is obviously an issue. Even warm water will lead quickly to hypothermia.

Don't forget the sharks.

The waves on the left indicate the water is fairly shallow, and the water upset indicates it's the windward side of this penninsula. You'll have rolling motion in the water, and getting out of the aircraft and getting to shore will be difficult. If you ditch beyond the waves, good luck getting to shore. 50 yards swimming in clothes following a traumatic accident is a long way to go, and 50 yards isn't very far. How long can you tread water?

Not long.

The water on the right side of the land appears calmer, but is probably also deeper. The depth, once it's beyond your body height, is irrelevant; if you can't put your feet on the bottom, what do you care how deep it is? However, the terrain on the right appears immediately higher with no evidence of a beach area. Once you reach shore, assuming you do, how do you get out of the water?

Parallel the shoreline on the windward side where the waves are washing onto the sand, just a little higher up the beach. Roll it on, use soft field technique. The closer you get to shore, the better, and the more likely you are to be rescued. You need to survive before you can be rescued, and the more likely you are to survive to be rescued.

Where is the best place to make a forced landing? There is no good place. You're seldom given much choice. I executed one a couple of months ago follownig a catastrauphic engine failure, and had little choice. It occured at low level in an area of terrain and obstacles, and I made a very quick decision as I emerged from the bottom of a canyon, and stuck with it. All things considered, it turned out well.

You often don't get to choose the circumstances under which a forced landing will be necessary, or executed. You certainly don't get to choose the ultimate outcome...you do your best and take what you get from there. You need to prioritize your mission at that point. Let go completely of all other thoughts...change gears from getting to your destination to getting to the forced landing site (I prefer to think of it in those terms, rather than calling it a crash site). Your mission is to get down and get stopped in one piece...don't try to play odds on the number of survivors vs. the number of dead, aircraft cost, the FAA, or anything else under the sun. One mission and one mission only; get down, get stopped in the least traumatic way possible.

I had an engine failure this spring. I was at low level over a forest. The power rolled back to idle and then surged up to the power setting where it was when it failed. Then rolled back to idle again. And it kept doing that. My immediate intent was to put the fuselage between two trees in order for the wings to take the impact. The secondary advantage is that if the wings go, the fuel goes with them. In any case, the priority is getting stopped with the least amount of damage, and that means not taking the impact head on with the fuselage. You won't need the wings any more, let them serve a useful purpose if need be and absorb energy, instead of you absorbing it.

The engine continued to surge as I set up for a forced landing, and I began to ensure my aircraft was configured. Because the power was gone and then there again, my descent and "glide" was better than no power, and I found that I was able to continue the descent as I aimed for the side of the mountain, and followed a highway off the mountain. I was able to retain enough power, and ultimately restore power, to make it to a nearby rural airport and land. All the way in, following that two lane road, I continuously picked a spot ahead to make the forced landing in the event the power completely quit.

My second one this summer ( http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/avbug/OakCityCanyon50.jpg) resulted in a forced landing on a hillside with minimal damage, and I had no choices then but to put it on the ground. Once you know you're going down, commit to your site and don't change your mind at the last minute. Fences, terrain, and powerlines became more evident as I approached the hillside. I did decrease my airspeed slightly to clear a powerline, but never went below the glide speed for the airplane. I reserved my flaps until right before impact, and deployed them fully just prior to touching the mains in the dirt. I did this for two reasons; additional lift and a slower touchdown speed, a margin of stall prevention as I tried to get every ounce of energy out of the airplane before touching anything, and to hang as much metal out of the airpalne as possible to absorb impact, rather than me.

If you do go for that water landing, be very careful about trying to get close to the water and hold it off, and stall it in. Fly at your best glide speed while you do what you need to do at altitude, then reduce to your minimum sink speed (close to your Vx speed at sea level), and carry the minimum descent rate continuously until impact. Don't try to judge your neight above the water and stall. Depth perception on the water isn't what you think (remember how different it is just landing on runways of differing widths, day/night, good/poor visibility? Water adds another dimension entirely, as the surface is shifting, and it's very unfamiliar to a pilot). Be prepared for immediate egress, be prepared to do it from a flooded cabin or underwater, and be prepared to be not in an upright position.

I strongly urge folks to meditate on the possibilities through out the year, ideally on every fligth, as you move from A to B. I certainly do. I spend time in every aircraft I fly, regularly, practicing moving through the cockpit and aircraft with my eyes closed, finding things blindfolded. This is absolutely necessary, especially if you're going down at night or in the water. Things may not be visible, and major components of the aircraft may shift considerably as it twists or breaks up. Be able to recognize objects by feel, independently, rather than in context (going from one part to the next as you feel your way around). It may save your life, or enable you to save someone else's.

The first thing I do when riding as a passenger in an aircraft is not the positions of the exits, count the rows from my seat to the exit, and close my eyes and envision tapping each seat and counting as I move for that exit.

When flying as a pilot, I carry a personal knife, and usually a rescue hook knife for cables, seatbelts, wires, etc...and where able, a leatherman. Certain flying environments don't permit this, but where you can, do. In light aircraft, I also include a crash axe and a fixed blade knife, in my case a Cold Steel SRK. It may or may not be useful getting out, but you may need it to survive. My rescue hook is a benchmade design that fits discreetly on a belt, or usually for me gets clipped to my shoulder harness, and is a design that allows use in an emergency for cutting belts and so forth with minimal danger to anybody around, including the user.

Have water on board. That salt water will make you vomit. Have clean drinking water, clean dry clothes in plastic. A signal mirror, and so on. Be prepared. You don't need a rucksack, but you should have the basics appropriate to where you're headed. Even in warm weather, always carry a coat and hat or some kind. A jungle boonie hat folds up to nothing in your gear, takes no space, but serves as a bowl to scoop water, prevents deyhdration, and can be used for dozens of possibilities.

Back to the original post...be careful about considering the land at the upper elevations. Hard to tell from the picture, but I don't see many areas that would likely afford a suitable landing site. It may look good from the air, but with that long beach available, I wouldn't consider the rocks or sand or whatever that material is. It's too cut up, offers too much opportunity for poor judgement in spot landing to hurt you, and drops off and rolls in too many places to make you safe...it's more likely, like the water, to make your situation only worse.

Good luck!

 

[avbug]

--edit to above post: I forgot to add one of the most important points, and that is to keep flying the airplane until it stops moving. In the forced landing a couple of months ago I described, the rollout was violent. I became airborne several times due to variances in the terrain. Each time I did, I continued using the stick and rudders to apply control inputs, and kept doing that until the aircraft came to a full stop. When I settled to the ground the final time even at slower speeds, I was surprised that the aircraft was still controllable with the rudders. I was expecting a groundloop or to end up inverted as the hillside had large rocks all over the place. The aircraft came to rest on a large slash pile of cedar wood, which served beautifully to stop me and absorb the energy. (http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/avbug/Picture005.jpg)

Until that point, I still had rudder authority, because the rudder, which was crushed on the bottom, was dragging through the dirt like a rudder on a boat. Don't give up on the controls or flying the airplane until there's nothing left to fly. You never know but that the control inputs will make all the difference in the world. Never resign yourself to an outcome. Fly the aircraft, or whatever is left of it, as long as you possibly can.

In this last case, we were able to effect repairs on site over an eight day period, and fly the aircraft out for work under better conditions in Idaho. (http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/avbug/Picture054.jpg) A month later I brought the airplane back and continue to work it, albeit with a fresh engine and some structural work. You never know but that what appears hopeless may be perfectly survivable. Todays emergency becomes tomorrow's object lesson. Never give up. Ever.

 

[pgcfii2002]

Uh.......

 

[JAFI]

Remember in ditching you have the added chance to drown compared to a off airport landing on dry land. Also, With fixed gear, the aircraft will most likely flip on impact with the water. Best chance (according to the NASA study) is a flat (shallow angle with the ground), slow (just above a stall)speed, and slow reduction in airspeed (don't hit anything big to make you stop quick). In a single engine a/c wings level, in a twin, gear up with one wing low a couple of degrees with the idea that the low engine will disapate some of the forward energy. Again according to the mid 70's NASA study.

JAFI

 

[Launchpad]

At first I couldn't load the pic, but now I can see it. There are tons of places to put down in that pic... Kinda depends on the aircraft I guess, but you can't drown in dirt so that's something to consider.

I think most ditchings the concern is getting knocked out by the dash board (If you survive the impact) and getting out of a bent airplane.

Either way, crack the door before you hit.

Good luck if you try it!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Planes don't always flip when they hit the water.

A bunch of years ago, some private pilot in a PA28 lost his engine over the Hudson River with a chick on board. He ended up landing on the water alongside a pier and they both walked onto the wing and pier - dry and without injuries.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Somebody by that boy a beer!

 

[JAFI]

Amish, let's re-read what I said:

... With fixed gear, the aircraft will most likely flip on impact with the water.

JAFI

I agree with you, not all aircraft will flip at water impact. IMHO a low wing aircraft has less a chance of flipping upon water impact than a high wing. I would guess it may have to do with the center of gravity being higher on a high wing than a low wing, but that is my guess. Also less of a chance if you stall the aircraft just above the water than if you "drive" it into the water.

Either aircraft, if you are injured at impact you may not be able to swim that far, so you have a greater chance of drowning.

JAFI

 

[avbug]

You may not end up inverted and sunk...but plan on it anyway. If you don't, gravy...but never plan on an intact upright water landing. Be prepared to find your way out by braille.

 

[apcooper]

The myths of ditching

Read this article. It discusses the many myths of ditching that are floating around (no pun intended.)


http://www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm

 

[JAFI]

From the above link:

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Myth 6: High Wing Airplanes Almost Always Flip Over During Ditchings

See Myth 5. The accident record simply doesn't support this impression. In the 179 accidents we reviewed, only one mentioned flipping over on impact. It was a high wing, fixed-gear single (a Cessna 172). But at least 60 other high wing airplanes ditched and none of the pilots reported flipping over.
Is it possible that many of the high wing airplanes flipped and the pilots were just too pumped up to notice in their hurry to exit the airplane? Sure, it's possible. After all, the accident narratives are often too sketchy to draw definitive conclusions.
But again, even if every high wing airplane flipped over on impact or cartwheeled end-over-end across the water--highly unlikely, by the way--the occupants still managed to egress successfully. That doesn't argue for complacency in attempting the smoothest, slowest speed water touchdown you can manage but it strongly suggests that worrying about a flip-over is a misplaced concern.

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Interesting read.

JAFI

 

[avbug]

Irrelevant...plan on it. It may not happen, but always, ALWAYS plan for the worse-case scenario.

 

[navigator72]

My belief is that if you opt for the water, the emergency isn't over. What if the plane flips (very likely) and you become unconscious? You might just drown. I used to fly along the coast of Maine over some very rocky coastal terrain with no beaches, just trees and water and thought about it often...