Best personal cross-country airplane

[Stinkbug]

Hi all,

I've read a couple of old threads regarding purchasing a twin as a personal aircraft. I'm kicking around the idea of buying my first airplane, and as much as I'd like the speed and reliability of a twin, I'm not sure it will fit in my budget. I'm curious to hear opinions out there of what the best personal aircraft is for first-time buyers. My need is an airplane that I can fly IFR a few times a year from Central Florida to destinations in Texas, Kentucky, and West Virginia. In most cases it would just be my wife and child with me. All opinions welcome...I'm really a novice when it comes to the in's and out's of personal aircraft, so feel free to point out the obvious if need be.

 

[fastandlow]

Got $75-100k - maybe an older Bonanza, Cardinal RG, Comanche, Bellanca Viking? 145-155 kts or so.

For about the same money, how about an RV-10 (none flying yet, so you'd have to build your own) - 4 seats, 165-175 kts, fixed gear, very cheap to own.

If you have more time than money, then the Cherokee, Warrior, Skyhawk can't be beat and are simple to take care of.

2 cents

 

[Vector4fun]

Depends on your budget. I think the C182 or Archer is pretty hard to beat for simple transportation, and for either of those, I'm guessing around a grand a year for an "uneventful" annual, perhaps less for the Archer, and another grand a year for insurance with $70k hull value based on your profile. Get a $100k retract single, and double those numbers. Buy a simple twin, (Seneca) and triple them. (at least)

Biggest downfall for new purchasers, they don't have any idea how expensive it is to properly and legally maintain an IFR certified aircraft. ADs on certain models will eat you alive. I have a C172. That's as simple to fly/maintain as they come, mid-time engine. I spent $700 on insurance and this first year, $600 for owner-assisted annual, $400 to replace flap guage, $400 to install filter kit, about $4k in used radios, and another few hundred on odds and ends such as transponder and pitot-static certs.

How much can you afford?

 

[Guitar Guy]

I'd recommend the Piper Dakota. That 235 hp engine makes this a better Piper choice than the Archer. And with a fixed gear, you give up some speed, but you save a bundle in maintenance and insurance. Also, the Dakota has excellent load-carrying capability - it can nearly carry its empty weight in fuel and payload.

My Dad has been a part owner of a Dakota for over 15 years and he's taken his plane to Alaska twice from the Midwest as well as around a lot of the Conus. It's been a great plane and the engine has been bullet-proof for him, never having given him any trouble. (Something about a 6-cylinder motor only putting out 235 hp tends to help keep an engine out of trouble.)

 

[Immelman]

I am neither a high-time pilot or airplane owner, but I know lots of airplane owners, and have occasional wet dreams about airplane ownership.

I'd say a Mooney. I have a little time in an M20C and M20T (231 turbo) and thoroughly enjoyed the efficiency and performance of each. The back seat is not so big but for the money, fuel burn, and stability as an IFR platform I love em.

 

[Headwind]

My favorite: P-35 Bonanza. IO470N with 260 HP, 14 GPH, 165 KTAS. A good one about 85K +.
For about 1/2 that price and about 1/2 the cost to maintaine you could buy a good Cherokee 180 and do 120 KTAS @ 9 GPH.
A good C-182 is between these two in price and maintenance, but fuel flow close to the Bonanza.
Buy one that's been operated IFR and IFR current. Buy a good one.

HEADWIND

 

[350DRIVER]

As the above poster mentioned, look into an older Bonanza. You can get a nicely equipped older V35 between that price range. The endurance, useful load, range, speed, etc, is fantastic.

3 5 0

 

[fastandlow]

I'd say a Mooney. I have a little time in an M20C and M20T (231 turbo) and thoroughly enjoyed the efficiency and performance of each. The back seat is not so big but for the money, fuel burn, and stability as an IFR platform I love em.

Backseat would be good for one or two little people (kids). Quick, easy on the gas, honest plane, lots of them out there (some going to salvage for one reason or another) which might help with replacement part prices. Excellent suggestion.

 

[TrafficInSight]

stay away from a turbo. The maintenance will eat you alive and there's really no point to it anyway.

I'll second a Dakota (taperwing) or Pathfinder (hershey bar) Good useful load, more speed than an archer and the simplicity of a Cherokee. There's one guy at the shop I work at that owns a Dakota and we just look it over every 100 hours, it never gives him any trouble and he flies it a decent amount.

And if you want more seats or a retract Go with an Arrow or a Saratoga, or a 300 horse Cherokee Six.

 

[avbug]

Get a pitts. They're reasonably speedy. Tell your passengers to take Southwest. You may find you're having so much fun it takes twice as long to get there, but then who cares how long it takes, so long as you're happy where you are?

 

[Vector4fun]

As the above poster mentioned, look into an older Bonanza. You can get a nicely equipped older V35 between that price range. The endurance, useful load, range, speed, etc, is fantastic.

3 5 0

If you buy an older Bonanza, it will be very important to get a thorough pre-buy inspection from an A&P familiar with them. AOPA mag. (I think) had a series from a couple who bought an older one for around $45k from an A&P, and who then had to put that much again into a year long annual turned major re-build. Bathtub fittings, controls re-skinned, engine work, gear work, new fuel bladders, etc. etc. etc.

I love BE-33s and 35s, but if you don't know what you're getting into, you can get soaked pretty badly. I'd want maint records that were immaculate. Just for my Cessna, I have all logs plus a 3" ring binder that's full of receipts and records and 337's going back to the day it was new. And it's only got 3200TT.

 

[88_MALIBU]

I own a 1966 Cherokee 180. I bought it to build flight time, and flew the wings off of it. (1,000 hours in 4 years). Here are the costs of owning it.

Roughly speaking figure $4,000 a year just in owning it for convenience sake.

$800/year insurance
$1,300/ year hangar
$1,000 Annual
Around $1,000 for any other stuff that always happens during ownership.

I looked at Aircoupes, Cessna 152's, Twins, and about everything in between.

When it came down to it, singles that had high production rates were the cheapest to run. The Cherokee has good resale, and makes a good basic IFR cross country machine. I need a new motor in mine now, but its all worth it in the end. If you have the money you can into a nice 140 for $30,000 I think. I have a 1,050 pound useful with my 180 though, and it will haul all of it no prob. If you have any questions let me know. I love talking about airplanes!

 

[Stinkbug]

Get a pitts. They're reasonably speedy. Tell your passengers to take Southwest. You may find you're having so much fun it takes twice as long to get there, but then who cares how long it takes, so long as you're happy where you are?

Believe it or not...I don't really have the stomach for a plane like a Pitts. I'm pretty darn conservative with any airplane and a Pitts would be a complete waste of money for a guy like me. I know, I'm a wuss. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

 

[coolyokeluke]

Try winning the AOPA twin comanche. If you could afford the taxes on your windfall it'd be a fantastic cross country airplane.

 

[BD King]

For a few times a year? Drive.............For fun, buy a Champ or J3. Trust me it's cheaper.

 

[minitour]

Hold out for the Diamond Twin Star...

....they make me wet...

-mini

 

[typhoonpilot]

I'll second the the opinions on the Mooney. For a travelling machine with you and two pax it would be the best. For your mission I would go with a Mooney 201. Something from the late 70s through mid to late 80s should fit the budget nicely.

Typhoonpilot

 

[PropsForward]

Go for a fast single. Mooney, Sirrus, Saratoga, Centurion.

 

[Flyin Tony]

You can never go fast enough......

Our Annual on the comanche cost 200$.......

BUT before that we put uuummmm say 10K in the thing, A few speed mods and new DG and some other crap the thing runs real good
160kts on 12-13 gph, usefull load 1100lbs, holds 90gals.
bought it for 65k insurance is 2500 for the first year (100TT no IR and no cplx time) now its 1800 (300tt IR 200 cplx). Maybe sometime soon it will be for sale. Looking to update to a T210 or Rocket305

 

[TDTURBO]

IMO, if you have the coin, the best all around x-country airplane for speed, comfort, cost/hr, range, reliability ect is without a doubt, a R182 or TR182.

See if you can find a plane that will haul 4 full sized adults with luggage 156-170 kts at 13 gph 1000 nm away that won't kill you in maintenance.

The motors are bullet proof, (O-540), they actually routinely see 2200 hrs without a top, the turbos add only a buck or two/hr, (cheaper and more reliable than any turbo on the market due to derated 235 hp engine), with an airframe you need a back hoe to pull apart.

Ever try and buy a part for a Bo? Hint: You'll need to mortgage your house.

You have to consider maintenance costs on older airframes, the oldest R182's are '78 vintage and can be had IFR ready for between 100 and 115K with mid-time engines.

I fly mine on 1200nm trips once/month without a hiccup. Get a good pre-buy(annual) before committing to any plane, you won't regret it.