Best Management Company

[swabby]

If you were going to put your company a/c, Falcon 900EX with a management company who would you choose,Jet Aviation, Tag ,Avjet. We will operate 50% part 91 and 50% charter,about 50 hours a month 91. We will have 4 pilots and the plane is in the BWI area. Any and all comments are welcome...maybe!

Thanks

 

[h25b]

If you were going to put your company a/c, Falcon 900EX with a management company who would you choose,Jet Aviation, Tag ,Avjet. We will operate 50% part 91 and 50% charter,about 50 hours a month 91. We will have 4 pilots and the plane is in the BWI area. Any and all comments are welcome...maybe!

Thanks

Personally, I am having a hard time figuring out how you are going to get 50 additional hours of charter on the airplane after using it for 50 hours of 91. Who is telling you that this is possible ??? I'll bet either your broker or one of the management companies. I would imagine that the only way you could do this is if the Part 91 flights do not count against the Part 135 duty time limitations. I realize you have 4 pilots, but there are going to be plenty of times where at least one of them are not available or if you're going long range you need to be taking 3 of them... ???

Why is it that no start up operation (especially 91/135) ever considers things like crew rest, vacation days, training days, etc... ??? Because according to aircraft brokers and charter management companies anything is possible, including putting 30 hrs. in to a single day. Amazing...

Just doesn't seem like a very realistic expectation to me. But there are plenty out there smarter than me that I'm sure will be along soon to correct me. Of course though I am hoping that this is a mistype and you really mean 50 hrs. a month TOTAL.

 

[Spooky 1]

If you were going to put your company a/c, Falcon 900EX with a management company who would you choose,Jet Aviation, Tag ,Avjet. We will operate 50% part 91 and 50% charter,about 50 hours a month 91. We will have 4 pilots and the plane is in the BWI area. Any and all comments are welcome...maybe!

Thanks

Forgetting the above issue regarding charter time, I would put TAG Avaition at the top of my list. I assume you would become a TAG employee and not what TAG refers to as a Charter Ally?

 

[flyingmk]

I have worked with EJM in this type of deal.

It was a very good experience.

 

[Gatorman]

Let me know if you are not interested in all of the 'Big' named charter companies.
Where are you based out of?

GATOR

 

[rice]

They've all got their god and bad points. But I'll second Spooky's opinion, TAG seems to be the best of the group in my opinion. They are usually the most expensive of the management firms (a fact that they don't try to hide) but they also seem to be the most "direct" to deal with. I've never heard of anyone questioning their accounting or their ability to hold up their end of the contract.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I was involved with a CE650 that we flew 750 hours one year and we needed 7 pilots. No way you can do 1000 hours a year with 4 guys legally. I talked to a TAG guy flying a 900B. They had 9 pilots for 1500 hours/year. Good luck.

 

[h25b]

I was involved with a CE650 that we flew 750 hours one year and we needed 7 pilots. No way you can do 1000 hours a year with 4 guys legally. I talked to a TAG guy flying a 900B. They had 9 pilots for 1500 hours/year. Good luck.

Especially if the 91 duty time counts against the 135... There is no way they will even be close able to pull off 500 hrs. 91 & 500 hrs. Part 135.

Sounds to me like a sales pitch someone convinced them was possible.

 

[some_dude]

I agree with what the others have said, both about the amount of flight time and recommending TAG.

If you have a chief pilot who you trust, I don't know that there is much benefit in going with a management company. On the other hand, if you don't have anyone and you are starting from scratch, a management company is a good idea.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree with most of the guys above...

but in reality its like asking if you prefer the needle or the electric chair...

stay on your own if at all possible!!!!

Hire good people, pay them well, treat them well -- and they will look our for your interests MUCH more than a TAG, JET or anyone else will.

At 50hrs a month PT91 already you will never do 50/month charter - not even close. If they are trying to sell you that crock get it in writing. Running 1200hrs yr. like that is impossible....and if you try you will go through crews at a record pace!

good luck!

 

[Crow]

I don't believe that staying on your own is good for all operators. We are Part 91 with TAG and the amount of savings in fuel discounts, insurance etc. versus before TAG has paid for itself. Now if we were 135...I'm not sure

 

[PMVULB AvMgr]

They've all got their god and bad points. But I'll second Spooky's opinion, TAG seems to be the best of the group in my opinion. They are usually the most expensive of the management firms (a fact that they don't try to hide) but they also seem to be the most "direct" to deal with. I've never heard of anyone questioning their accounting or their ability to hold up their end of the contract.

I'll bet that Chase Manhattan Bank will argue with your statement. They left TAG about 5 or 6 years ago and went with Jet. Of course they are now out on their own, running 91 out of HPN.

My suggestion for best management company would be Executive Fliteways ouit of ISP. I worked with them for a bunch of years. Their management is one of the best (and honest) in the entire 135 world. And that's from first hand experience!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I don't believe that staying on your own is good for all operators. We are Part 91 with TAG and the amount of savings in fuel discounts, insurance etc. versus before TAG has paid for itself. Now if we were 135...I'm not sure

you sound like a salesman!

the 4 accounts I worked on didn't pan out this way (91 or 135)

a dedicated crew can negotiate just as well on fuel discounts, etc...

There is a reason many aircraft switch management compnaies every 2 years. They finally hit a thorough audit,and realize how bad they are being screwed. (at least this is the owners perception)

IMHO take that 10K+/month and give it directly to your dedicated, hard working crew, not some scumbag, sweet talking salesman.

 

[DruDown]

I think AvJet is a great way to go. Probably as pricy as TAG, but you'll get what you pay for. Most of the managed clients have been with the company for years and aren't planning on going anywhere else. Maintenance is excellent, the neogtiated fuel rates are incredible, and you can bet that if the plane is not on a 91 trip, they will have charter for it to fly. Training is mostly done at SimuFlite every 6 months, plus MedAir and CAPPS for all crewmembers each year. You can expect to stay within the planned budget, unless, obviously, there are some unforseen cost, ie. crewmembers leaving (with 100 hours a month flying, you may want to expect that), unforseen MX, etc. While based in KBUR, there is a reason AvJet is picking up more managed clients on the East Coast and in the Midwest - you get what you pay for, no surprises.

I do agree with the others, in that 50 hours charter/50 hours 91 is unlikely with 4 pilots, or even with more pilots. 50 hours of flying for the boss puts the plane off line for most of the month, leaving very little time for it to charter. I know every management company is going to tell you they can do it, but take that as a sales pitch and expect more in the realm of 50 hours 91/20 hours charter as a reasonable guess on the actual times.

PM me if you have more questions.

Dru

 

[swabby]

Most of the Bosses trips are international in nature....4-6 days away and 25-30
hours flying.

Thanks for all the help

 

[DruDown]

Based on your 50 hour estimate of 91 flying your probably looking at 12-18 days of the month with just the boss, that doesn't leave much time for charter if the crew wants to get a few days off a month. I'm sure there are ways to coordinate different crews, but the flying for the boss alone is a full-time job. I hope it all works out for you, good luck with everything, let me know if you have any other questions.

Dru

 

[CenturionJet]

TAG, Avjet, Jet are all big operations but their focus seems to be more directed towards Management of the aircraft only. They don't seem to push charter that much except for Avjet, maybe you should consider a more boutique operation. Wher you wouldn't be the 4th Falcon 900 on the certificate?

IMHO

 

[Spooky 1]

TAG, Avjet, Jet are all big operations but their focus seems to be more directed towards Management of the aircraft only. They don't seem to push charter that much except for Avjet, maybe you should consider a more boutique operation. Wher you wouldn't be the 4th Falcon 900 on the certificate?

IMHO

Not sure where you got your data from but I believe TAG is the largest charter (hours flown) in the US.

 

[g159av8tor]

Contact FlightWorks in ATL at flightworks.com. We have two groups of pilots: managed flight department employees (me) that fly strictly Part 91 and company pilots that fly 91/135. Both groups and the company we support are satisfied.

Tailwind...