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[CelticCitation]

Any concerns on the Sabre 65 with pax thinking they are too old an aircraft? Currently flying a 1980 model C-550, so about the same era, but perceptions mean a lot.

 

[Rick1128]

Any concerns on the Sabre 65 with pax thinking they are too old an aircraft? Currently flying a 1980 model C-550, so about the same era, but perceptions mean a lot.

Looked at Sabres in the past. If you are carrying women any appreciable amount, the answer is not just NO, but H-LL NO!. Women just seem to hate that step down into the cabin, especially if they are wearing dresses or skirts. Not a major deal killer in the bigger picture, but if a woman has any power over your department, I would give more consideration to something else.

 

[Lead Sled]

Looked at Sabres in the past. If you are carrying women any appreciable amount, the answer is not just NO, but H-LL NO!. Women just seem to hate that step down into the cabin, especially if they are wearing dresses or skirts. Not a major deal killer in the bigger picture, but if a woman has any power over your department, I would give more consideration to something else.

But just think of the comfort that they'll have in knowing that when you ditch in the Atlantic the airplane will float.

'Sled

 

[CelticCitation]

Just read on another thread that VII's are going to drop in the market as Net Jets dumps them. Anyone know time frame or how many they actually are getting rid of?

 

[some_dude]

You know, you really can't have it all. If you want something with a 1) decent size cabin, 2) good hot and high performance, 3) reasonable cruise performance, 4) fairly new, and 5) a cheap purchase price, it's just not gonna happen. You have to give up something.

You'll be lucky to get three of those five in one airplane. Of course, if you are willing to give up on #5 then you can get a Falcon 50 or a Citation Sovereign and have the other 4.

Any concerns on the Sabre 65 with pax thinking they are too old an aircraft? Currently flying a 1980 model C-550, so about the same era, but perceptions mean a lot.

 

[CelticCitation]

A typical passenger can't tell the difference between a 1978 Citation and a new Encore off the assembly line. Question is, what do they think of the Sabre. I realize there must be compromises. That is why I ask this forum. The opinions of pilots who are flying the equipment means a lot more to me than the opinion of even the most honest salesperson. And I do thank everyone who has given an honest responce.

 

[dicepilot]

We flew a VII for a couple of years. Very reliable, good performer, nice handling. Sold it and flew a III for 6 months. Really missed the VII. Flying a Sovereign now and what a performer! Does everything Cessna said it would do and more.

 

[psysicx]

What kind of range does the Sabre have? And isn't a VII just as much as an Astra and maintaince heavy?

 

[Headwind]

The Sabre 65 has 2700 mile range. We have women on board and the step has not been a problem. You step up to the top step - then step down into the aircraft. I do not work for a woman, and what kind of man would let a woman complain about such petty things an the door to his corporate jet? The entry is not as nice as a Hawker, but the 65 is faster, less maintenance cost, and we don't have to put alcohol in our wings.
As far as the age - some passengers think it's a new aircraft and I don't tell them the year model unless they ask. Do they ask the age of the 727 or 737-100 when flying airlines?
If you want or need something newer then the Astra will do about everything a 65 will do and the Falcon 50 will do more, both at a higher cost.

HEADWIND

 

[psysicx]

How far is Hawaii from the west coast?

 

[AA717driver]

How far is Hawaii from the west coast?

Five hours.TC

 

[Rick1128]

The Sabre 65 has 2700 mile range. We have women on board and the step has not been a problem. You step up to the top step - then step down into the aircraft. I do not work for a woman, and what kind of man would let a woman complain about such petty things an the door to his corporate jet? The entry is not as nice as a Hawker, but the 65 is faster, less maintenance cost, and we don't have to put alcohol in our wings.
As far as the age - some passengers think it's a new aircraft and I don't tell them the year model unless they ask. Do they ask the age of the 727 or 737-100 when flying airlines?
If you want or need something newer then the Astra will do about everything a 65 will do and the Falcon 50 will do more, both at a higher cost.

HEADWIND

You just think you don't work for a woman. Most executives have three women they listen to and give a great deal of credance to. His wife, his secretary and his executive assistant. These are three people you absolutely do not want to pi$$ off. But if they like you, you can just about ignore everyone else. I have dealt with female executives, plus female executive staff and a majority seem to make an issue of that step down into the cabin. They do not seem to mind the steps up, but that step down for some reason is an issue.

The best advice is to make a short list of aircraft that meet his requirements and rank them. Then present that list to the boss. Then get him to at least sit in each one. Better yet take a normal trip in each one. Charter them if necessary. That way he can make a reasonabily informed decission.

good luck

 

[psysicx]

Whats the problem the ladies have with a step?

 

[HMR]

The Astra was a big step up from my previous plane.

 

[Capthuff]

If you put a Citation 3 up against a Hawker 700 and a Lear 55, the 3 would win every time. Sure it's not the ideal aircraft to have but if your budjet is less then 4 mil. it is the only one I'd pic. One thing you might mention to your boss is that there are a number of airplanes out there for 12 mil or less that - when you consider the charter revenue margin - after tax, depreciation, and such, they are cheaper to operate.

If you want a citation 3, I have a friend who is selling his for a larger a/c. It is the best equiped/ lowest time 3 out there.

 

[Sabresaurus]

Sabre 65

Interesting comments. I am currently flying a Sabre-65. I currently fly part 91 and have flown 135 in this make & model. Very rarely did or do I recall anyone complaining about the entrance to these aircraft (gender indifferent). With resepect to the looks of a less aged aircraft, you can sharpen these airplanes (Sabres) up quite a bit. I have to admit my aircraft is maintained exceptionally well, with a current paint scheme. TLC is the key. Waxing, polishing etc plus brite work weekly etc. You actually can polish a turd and make it look smooth "in some respects". If you want a good looking / sleek looking aircraft buy the Lear 55. If you want to walk down the isle way like Homo Erectus, buy the Cit III, Hawker or Astra. BUT..........................

If you were to compare the -65 "toe to toe" with a Hawker 700, Citation III, LR-55, Astra, etc and compare direct aquisition, operation, upkeep costs and performance I promise you this. After you take your financial beating I will bank my million saved and reinvest it into excellent paint, interior, upgraded navs, RVSM etc and still have a years worth of operational expenses in the bank drawing interest. This aircraft is a steal (65 model). Untapped aircraft on the market. The biggest draw back to these models is the lack of luggage space. The only aircraft it bows to (performance and head room) is the Astra. The down side with the Astra is aquisition cost.

And if you have a aversion to bending down in order to sit down then spend the extra million on your drop down floor on your Hawker, Citation III, Astra etc and eat the money. Just my two cents worth.

 

[CelticCitation]

Thanks Sabresaurus, that is the kind of info I've been looking for.

 

[Lead Sled]

Interesting comments. I am currently flying a Sabre-65. I currently fly part 91 and have flown 135 in this make & model. Very rarely did or do I recall anyone complaining about the entrance to these aircraft (gender indifferent). With resepect to the looks of a less aged aircraft, you can sharpen these airplanes (Sabres) up quite a bit. I have to admit my aircraft is maintained exceptionally well, with a current paint scheme. TLC is the key. Waxing, polishing etc plus brite work weekly etc. You actually can polish a turd and make it look smooth "in some respects". If you want a good looking / sleek looking aircraft buy the Lear 55. If you want to walk down the isle way like Homo Erectus, buy the Cit III, Hawker or Astra. BUT..........................

If you were to compare the -65 "toe to toe" with a Hawker 700, Citation III, LR-55, Astra, etc and compare direct aquisition, operation, upkeep costs and performance I promise you this. After you take your financial beating I will bank my million saved and reinvest it into excellent paint, interior, upgraded navs, RVSM etc and still have a years worth of operational expenses in the bank drawing interest. This aircraft is a steal (65 model). Untapped aircraft on the market. The biggest draw back to these models is the lack of luggage space. The only aircraft it bows to (performance and head room) is the Astra. The down side with the Astra is aquisition cost.

And if you have a aversion to bending down in order to sit down then spend the extra million on your drop down floor on your Hawker, Citation III, Astra etc and eat the money. Just my two cents worth.

Our Astra has appreciated $1.2 million in the past two years, but then we bought it right. Airplanes can still be bought "right" in today's market. When it comes to airplanes, newer is almost always better than older. If your boss is looking for the cheapest midsize jet he can get his hands on I'm sure that you wouldn't have much problem finding a Viper-powered Hawker for less than $400K. You can put the other $2.5 million in the bank, draw off the interest, and operate it forever.

'Sled

(Just kidding! )

 

[G100driver]

. The down side with the Astra is aquisition cost.

You also forgot the airplane stranding you at least once a year with a slat and or flap failure ....

 

[Prof. ATP]

Falcons are out there for little more money. How is the support? Don't know much about their hot and high. Any one operating got an opinion?

If we buy a Falcon I want to fly it...

On the serious side, the issue of Business/Commercial Aviation that arrived today had a little profile on the Citation III series. Sounds like their hot & high performance falls well short of our needs.