Best and Worst Commuter (Regional) Airline

[paid4training]

Ive been there my good man....i often find that after a good taco bell meal i am visited by the machine gun poop monster.....the ones that release fast, high pressure mortor balls in a machine gun like motion....its not pretty...but I will now refer to this terrible gastrointestinal disorder as "the G$Jets"

Ever eat at Poncho's? Oh my thats like a poopie buffet. Its like 6 bucks all you can eat. Those are always good nights after....:crying:

 

[tomcash]

Why encourage any aspiring pilot to go to a commuter airline?

 

[jimcav]

Commutair ruled, at least in the fun dept.

 

[DGdaPilot]

Why encourage any aspiring pilot to go to a commuter airline?

So they can live the dream one paycheck at a time. :laugh:

 

[avrodriver]

Regarding the AW ALPA contract, I was not impressed from what I saw of the duty regs that allowed things such as almost unlimited reassignments and junior manning, even reassignments to field standby, just to mention a few items I noticed. From what I saw in the AW ALPA contract it wasn't much better, if at all, from what I have picked up on as the Sky West non-alpa contract. I am not particularly well informed on this comparison however and would be pleased if someone can tell me how much better an alpa contact is over the Skywest non-alpa contract.

...Ummm isn't that how you keep a union off the property?? Give them exactly or pretty dam.n close to what the top union carrier contracts are getting? Whatever "contract" Skywest pilots work under would not be in place today if they didn't have to keep up with contracts that union carriers have had to fight for.

Doesn't sound like a bad deal does it, but it isn't always a guaranteed win. Ask a Skywest pilot how this worked out. " Hey will you guys fly 50-99 seaters for the same pay...it will only be for 18 months, then we can set up some pay scales for the bigger equipment"........what has it been, two and a half years later, nothings changed.

If you are not impressed with Air Wisconsin contract then don't bother reading any others, I'm not saying it's the best. But it's gotta be in the top five and out of those you are only going to see slight differences here and there.

 

[CallmeJB]

FWIW, the AW ALPA contract is twice as good as the UAL ALPA contract.

 

[Dubya]

I can't begin to tell you how much more interesting the poop talk is.

W

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

FWIW, the AW ALPA contract is twice as good as the UAL ALPA contract.

I really don't know what FWIW means so possibly you could enlighten those who are unfamilir with this abbreviation.

Regarding the AW ALPA contract verses the UAL ALPA contract. From what I have seen I'm quite certain the UAL contract is much better in pay, working conditions and most everything else, even with the regression of the last few years. But who know what the future will bring, maybe Air Willy will survive to purchase UAL and then divide it up for sale. :laugh: Nothing surprises me anymore in this industry.

UDF

 

[Gofish]

FWIW...for what its worth.

 

[avrodriver]

.............

 

[BoilerUP]

It certainly ain't worth bragging about, but ZW's work rules are generally better (post-concession) than both US Airways & United (post-concession). Of course payrates are better at the mainline - they fly larger aircraft!

Wish I'd have gotten into this thread prior to page 3

 

[CallmeJB]

Regarding the AW ALPA contract verses the UAL ALPA contract. From what I have seen I'm quite certain the UAL contract is much better in pay, working conditions and most everything else, even with the regression of the last few years.

Sorry, the UAL contract of course has better payrates, but they haven't added a 50 seat payscale yet. Too tongue-in-cheek? Just check out NWA.

To be serious, I admit I'm not an expert on the UAL contract, so this is just heresay from my various experiences on their jumpseat:

The UAL pilots have, in concessions, lost many work rules. Specifically, I was referring to their lack of trip and duty rig, their 65 hour monthly guarantee, their 10 guaranteed days off, and I believe their loss of block or better and cancellation pay (only get straight flight time pay now). They also don't have any 401(k) match. That said, they do have $1.90/hr per diem, compared to our too-low $1.40.

And, as you pointed out, we don't have any $182/hr Captains on property.


disclaimer: I am neither touting AWAC nor slamming UAL, just pointing out that contracts aren't what they used to be. FWIW ( ) I hope the lagacies get every work rule back; there needs to be someplace for all of us to end up!

 

[hateairlines]

Piedmont is the best!

 

[Jbitzer]

Here is a news flash... every pilot b!tches about their contract film at 11... no F-ing document is gonna keep everybody happy and the only thing that is so great about an ALPA contract is that you will have a well funded (1.95% of everyone's pay) lawyer to fight your grievence. No one document is gonna satisfy the needs of a pilot group no matter the size.... get used to it... Piedmont does get crew meals though... oh and in this day and age make sure your contract has a decent scope cause for what it is worth anyway....

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

To be serious, I admit I'm not an expert on the UAL contract, so this is just heresay from my various experiences on their jumpseat:

The UAL pilots have, in concessions, lost many work rules. Specifically, I was referring to their lack of trip and duty rig, their 65 hour monthly guarantee, their 10 guaranteed days off, and I believe their loss of block or better and cancellation pay (only get straight flight time pay now). They also don't have any 401(k) match. That said, they do have $1.90/hr per diem, compared to our too-low $1.40.

CallmeJB: Thank you for your post. What you have written here is mostly embellishment from the constant complainers whose jumpseat you were on, but how could you know this. These crews just want you to feel sorry for them. For example, they were right to tell you that here is no 401k matching, and there never was or is now a match of 401k money. Instead it's much better than that. It's now an outright gift of 12% beyond your pay, which goes into a 401k "B" fund. Example: Crew puts in zero and company puts in 12% above and beyond salary. Most of the other items you've mentioned are similarly embellished by the crews who you've ridden with, but their is still a sliver of truth to the stories you were told. And even then, the crews forgot to tell you that what truth there was in their story was only true of the LCC (Low cost carrier) 737 and A320 crews at UAL. All the rest or the crews, 757/767/777/747, have absolutely no such draconian rules.

And of course, except for the absolute most junior LCC pilots, the other LCC pilots could be flying the wide body part of the airline as junior F/O's or Captains with traditional legacy duty regs. It's their choice.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Here is a news flash... every pilot b!tches about their contract film at 11... no F-ing document is gonna keep everybody happy and the only thing that is so great about an ALPA contract is that you will have a well funded (1.95% of everyone's pay) lawyer to fight your grievence. No one document is gonna satisfy the needs of a pilot group no matter the size.... get used to it... Piedmont does get crew meals though... oh and in this day and age make sure your contract has a decent scope cause for what it is worth anyway....

Really the only ones making out today are the ALPA Executive board members, along with their assistants. These officers make money in the $300k to $500k range and their assistants make over $100k. How's that while the crews of the various airlines just complain about each other and end up with ALPO for dinner.

"A house divided against itself can not stand." ALPA is doomed to fail unless the house ceases to be divided.

 

[CallmeJB]

UDF-

Thank you for the insight. I heard what I knew directly from a 777 CA, and assumed he was talking about his own rules.

I stand corrected. Not the first, and, with my mouth, not the last time.

 

[imacdog]

CallmeJB: Thank you for your post. What you have written here is mostly embellishment from the constant complainers whose jumpseat you were on, but how could you know this. These crews just want you to feel sorry for them. For example, they were right to tell you that here is no 401k matching, and there never was or is now a match of 401k money. Instead it's much better than that. It's now an outright gift of 12% beyond your pay, which goes into a 401k "B" fund. Example: Crew puts in zero and company puts in 12% above and beyond salary. Most of the other items you've mentioned are similarly embellished by the crews who you've ridden with, but their is still a sliver of truth to the stories you were told. And even then, the crews forgot to tell you that what truth there was in their story was only true of the LCC (Low cost carrier) 737 and A320 crews at UAL. All the rest or the crews, 757/767/777/747, have absolutely no such draconian rules.

And of course, except for the absolute most junior LCC pilots, the other LCC pilots could be flying the wide body part of the airline as junior F/O's or Captains with traditional legacy duty regs. It's their choice.

Why don't all of your pilots work under the same rules?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Why don't all of your pilots work under the same rules?

Divide and conquer! I guess that’s the plan and we have agreed to it. Pretty stupid!

 

[Hobit]

CallmeJB: Thank you for your post. What you have written here is mostly embellishment from the constant complainers whose jumpseat you were on, but how could you know this. These crews just want you to feel sorry for them.

And maybe your less than positive remarks about AWAC and it's CBA are a result of your boys complaints after the airline moved east. This is my second regional and AWAC's contract is worlds above the one that I previously worked for. (No I never was endentured at mesa either)

I do applaud your sons move to Corporate Aviation, but if AWAC was his only other experience he/you are not qualified to disparage it.

 

[BoilerUP]

UndauntedFlyer,

While you undoubtedly have decades more longevity and experience than I do, when I read statements from you like this about a large percentage of the UAL pilot group:

These crews just want you to feel sorry for them.

And even then, the crews forgot to tell you that what truth there was in their story was only true of the LCC (Low cost carrier) 737 and A320 crews at UAL. All the rest or the crews, 757/767/777/747, have absolutely no such draconian rules.

And of course, except for the absolute most junior LCC pilots, the other LCC pilots could be flying the wide body part of the airline as junior F/O's or Captains with traditional legacy duty regs. It's their choice.

its seems to me you as a 777 CA have about as much direct knowledge of what its like to fly a small narrowbody at UAL under your CBA as it is to fly the CRJ at Air Wisconsin under our CBA. It also appears that the "divide and conquer" you speak of couldn't have worked better at splitting at splitting the pilot group. Why would 737 CAPTAINS leave UAL for places like FedEx & UPS if working there was as rosy a picture as you paint?

I like working for ZW but all things considered, I'd rather be on a major seniority list than a regional seniority list anyday, and I'd imagine most people under 30 feel a similar way.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

And maybe your less than positive remarks about AWAC and it's CBA are a result of your boys complaints after the airline moved east. This is my second regional and AWAC's contract is worlds above the one that I previously worked for. (No I never was endentured at mesa either)

I do applaud your sons move to Corporate Aviation, but if AWAC was his only other experience he/you are not qualified to disparage it.

As a matter of fact, I don't remember my son ever complaining about AWAC. In fact, he said he liked it at AWAC, just as you have pointed out too. And he especiallly liked all the crews he flew with. So, the comments I make here are not his, they are mine. And as I have pointed out in earlier posts, I do not have indepth knowledge of the commuters. I have posted this thread to gain some knowledge in that area.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

UndauntedFlyer,its seems to me you as a 777 CA have about as much direct knowledge of what its like to fly a small narrowbody at UAL under your CBA as it is to fly the CRJ at Air Wisconsin under our CBA.

Why would 737 CAPTAINS leave UAL for places like FedEx & UPS if working there was as rosy a picture as you paint?.

I think I have considerable knowledge of what it's like to fly in the LCC part of UAL, considering that about half my F/O's were formerly LCC Captains. You see I hear their complaints for hours as we fly long international legs. Personally, I believe most of their complaints are related to the incompatibility of the LCC operation and commuting. So if a person lives locally, even the LCC operation isn't too bad, and the same probably goes for working at Air Wisconsin. And as to why some of our junior pilots leave for FedEx and UPS, I’m sure it’s for the usual reasons: Money and job security. FedEx and UPS have the power to negotiate the best contracts and the job security is better. But even so, it's still freight hauling. Personally, I like hauling people.

Now regarding Air Wisconsin, while they do have an ALPA contract, and I'm sure it is light years better there than Mesa, as well as many others, I'm certain it's a long way from there to where it ought to be to make the job what it should be. So it's certainly no surprise if I say now that all Regional/Commuter pilots are grossly under valued and under appreciated. I don’t think I’ll get an argument from anyone on this board if I say that all the Regional/Commuter pilots should be making about double what they currently earn if pay was determined by training and responsibility. Every pilot's work is a highly demanding way to earn a living and they should be paid for the responsibility of the work.

More comments about other airlines would be appreciated.

Thank you.

UndauntedFlyer (UDF)

 

[imacdog]

So you are tearing into the commuters for not have as good of a contract as United (gee, think it's because our planes produce less revenue?), yet you have pilots on your own list working under different work rules. Talk about unity! Here's a clue - we commuter pilots don't exactly need to be told that our working conditions aren't as good as yours; we know this. So what exactly is your point? Majors are better than commuters? Where did you get that amazing insight?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Here is a news flash... every pilot b!tches about their contract film at 11... no F-ing document is gonna keep everybody happy and the only thing that is so great about an ALPA contract is that you will have a well funded (1.95% of everyone's pay) lawyer to fight your grievence. No one document is gonna satisfy the needs of a pilot group no matter the size.... get used to it... Piedmont does get crew meals though... oh and in this day and age make sure your contract has a decent scope cause for what it is worth anyway....

Ummm...no you won't. Well Funded attorney? Yes. To fight for you?! Yeah right! :laugh:

 

[AWACoff]

ALPA did not have a say in AWAC moving our operations to the east coast. Undaunted, you don't seem to have a grasp on what unions can and cannot do for you. If your company decides that it needs to fly out of a different city to remain alive, ALPA (aka YOUR MEC) does not have a say. The company isn't breaking any part of the contract opening and closing domiciles.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

More comments about other airlines would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Can anyone reply to the above question?

 

[FlyinPiker]

Can anyone reply to the above question?

United Suck.s, and so do B scales.