Being a Contract pilot?

[hawker]

Recently Laid off and obtaining my ATP, I was offered a job and retainer to fly a Citaion V. This dept is not even paying for my trainiing the state has a program that will pay up to $9000 for training that will get you a Job (SIC training is 8900).

So in this deal he offered me $600 a week fly 2 days and go out to the hangar and clean a/c or what ever misc duties 1 eight hour day a week. HE is not willing to pay the extra $4000 to get me typed. I am wrong to accept this job and pay the extra 4000 so at least I will have a type and something to boost the resume. Also able to stay current and flying in todays economy is something to take into consideration.

Also can anyone give me info on companies I heard that will type you in the aircraft for about 5000. I heard of one in SDL and one somewhere in CA.

THanks for any advice, I do not want to do any thing that will further cheapen our industry but I would like to at least be able to still fly.

 

[wannab0133]

i wouldnt do it b/c you deserve to be paid and trained. that's what it takes to own a jet. as a jet operator this guy know before hand that he will have to deal crew training issues. i know a turboprop operator with 2 turboprops that require pic/sic both and he has spent more than 1 million over the years at flight safety alone just training crew. all the pic's twice a year and the sic's once a year minimum. that's just 2 airplanes under part 91. it comes with the territory. bad thing is that if you dont do it, someone else will jump in there happy to pay for the training. its a hard decision. sad but true.
good luck

 

[Timebuilder]

I gave this type of situation some thought over the past several months. Here's what I came up with:

My boss is willing to type me in another 1,000 hours, which at the rate I am flying is about a year and a half. After that, courtesy dictates that I give him a year as a captain to allow him to recoup his expense for providing that training. That's two and a half years working at the bottom of the pay scale, for a total of five years since I left my last good paying job for a flying career, and started my CFI training.

In the second scenario, I type myself in the next 90 days and do my ATP ride at the same time. This will allow me to log part 91 jet PIC on the dead legs, and avoid the expense of renting a twin for the ATP. Finally, since my boss incurs no expense in the process, I am not beholden to him for any amount of time, and can freely move on to my next job with only a two week notice.

How does this apply to you? Well, if I type myself and give my boss the benefit of using me as a 135 PIC, then I have given him something that should be a part of his normal business expenses. This is what you would be doing. If I type myself to acccrue PIC jet time, and continue to work as an SIC for the 135 legs, all my boss has gained is a more profiicient, better trained copilot. When it is time for me to move on, my type rating shows that I am a trainable candidate for another type of jet, and I am proficient in the jet cockpit.

The scenario you describe also makes you the plane cleaner right up front, and frankly, who knows what else will be asked of you. Only you can make the cost/benefit analysis for your situation, just as I laid out above to provide you with a sample.

Depending on where you are located, there may not be a great number of people who will do what you are considering. This would establish a set of beliefs in your boss's mind, and if you begin your job under a cloud of desperation, you may find yourself bitter in a few years if you have not been able to move up or move on.

That's my two cents. Take it for whatever it is worth to you.

 

[rice]

Disclaimer: I'm also recently Laid off

I understand that in these economic times any job might be considered a good job and if your providing for others you have to put food on the table for them. But before you "sell out" to this guy consider what is happening here.
This guy is cheapening our industry and you will be helping him do it. Some things you've stated about this job and employer are not so bad and some are absurd. Addressing the easy one first;

1. More power to the guy if the state has a program to pay for your training. Its not his fault that the state provides this type of benefit and he should take advantage of it (many pilots have used WIA money for training).

2. Some employers will not Type a new SIC right off the bat for fear that the person will bail on them as soon as the next better offer comes along and there goes his investment. IMO this situation depends on which side of the fence your sitting on.

3. I see no problem in investing in yourself and paying the extra cash for the Type Rating. But that being said, be careful, you are establishing a precedent and this employer sounds like he is one to take advantage of you and your situation. If you do this he may expect you to pay for half of your recurrent trraining next year etc.

4. Now for the fun part. $600 bucks a week!!!!!!!!! Are you out of your mind!!!! If you do this I will personally hunt you down and b!tch slap you in front of every pilot on the airport for whoring yourself out for so little money. (I personally have no problem with pilot whores, I just think they ought to be making a fair wage.) Do yourself and the rest of us in the industry a favor and get a hold of some salary surveys, talk to people in your area, and query this board. Find out what an SIC in a Citation V should be making average it all out and go back to this guy with that $ figure.

5. Its not uncommon nowadays for corporate pilots to have extra duties within the flight dept. But its not right if your the only guy who has them, especially for $600 / wk.

This guy may just be testing the waters w/ you to see how desperate you are for this job or maybe he's just cheap. But in any case if you take the position under your described circumstances be prepared to be used and abused throughout your stay with this employer.

Just my .02 cents

Rice

 

[Timebuilder]

Rice, I had to laugh out loud at number 4.

You're right, it is one thing to be a whore, and another to be a cheap one. I guess I just missed the "cheap" monicker, since I don't clean the airplane!

Okay, a quick vacuum, once in a while on a Sunday...

 

[rice]

Timebuilder,

Gotta keep those standards up!

Rice

 

[Rick1128]

Hawker,

As an independant contractor, you don't clean aircraft, offices, mow lawns, etc. Typed in an aircraft, I charge $350 to 1000 a day for every day I am with that aircraft. For a steady client, I charge $200 a day on-call. Don't whore yourself. You are hurting yourself and everyone else in this area of the profession.

Not being type does not hurt you at this point in your career. You are right at the bottom of Flight Safety's zone of consideration. A year later, with some experience in the aircraft will make it an easier experience.

This employer is smart to take advantage of a state program. However, if he wants you at his beck and call all the time, you are really an employee and need to be paid a livable salary. You need to find out what he expects of you. If the above is the case, then hold out for a livable salary. And get a written agreement that he pays for recurrent.

 

[capt_zman]

Although I agree with what everyone is saying, I carefully read your post again. It looks as though you are going to fly for 2 days and do other activities 1 other day, for a total of 3 days per week. That equates to 200/day, which is avg, if not decent, SIC pay.

As for the training, he's smart to take advantage of the state training benefit. As for your training, do what Timebuilder did. Ride the right seat, become familiar with the operation and gain some leverage for the future. Right now, being a 1600 hr pilot (per your profile) and new to the operation, you have no leverage.

My advice would be to keep the money in your pocket. Making 600/wk, you're going to need it.

 

[capt_zman]

One other thing, do the math. You are going to make 600/wk which equates or 31200 a year while working 3 days per week (based on a 52 week year).

Now it sounds dirt cheap, but you'd be making more and working less than most others at your experience level. Sounds like you'd have a much better quality of life, only working 3 days with one of those in the hangar.

It's all upside for overtime (extra days, if it exists).

 

[Timebuilder]

Since I have already disclosed my low wages for the benefit of other pilots, I must point out that at $600 per week, you would make over $7,000 more per year than I do. That's close to the cost of the type. Sheesh!