Been Lrking for 4yrs, now I need advice

[Gembat]

I've been lurking these boards for a few years and finally need some input from those whom have been there and are there. I know this is long.

My story -for what it's worth.

Credentials:
Ex-military/ civilian A&P
BS Degree from ERAU
Non-current Instrument rated
Age: 35/single

After the military I went to ERAU and received my BS and then started on my ratings(due to finances). After signing a contract for a cheezy flight school (I know), they filed bankruptcy and I lost my whole nut with only my Instrument.

So somehow I talked my way into a job with a .com in their hayday, no stock options but I paid off all of my school loans and made good money for a year at which point they filed for bankruptcy.

I then signed up for the Mesa Program. A week later the date was 9/11 and Mesa suspended their programs. Got depressed took random retail cheezy jobs and now find myself 8 years older, out of cash and back where I started.

I am now getting into Real Estate Sales and the money will be good again.

This is my plan- let me know if it's sensible and realistic
- Hit Real Estate Sales as hard as I can(bay area)
- Hit flight as hard as I can on my days off and nights
-After 4 years I'll be 39 with steady income and a couple of investment properties, all of my ratings and some good flight time. I'll be late into the game and may have to go corporate and give up on Majors, but given my track record with flying it seems like the safest bet.

With the connections I have and the market I'm in it would not be unrealistic to expect 300K after 10 years with a lot of hard work. I constantly tell myself to put aside these goals of flying for the airlines, go out and make the cash and just buy a Pitts or something. I just don't want to look up in the sky again and wish I was flying for a career. My other option would be to drop everyting, sell everyting and go to the Mesa program. My worst fear with this option are the possible false impressions I may have with this career. I've just hit a brick wall with this one, lost faith in my good judgement and am looking for some input from those with the experience.

I guess it comes down to - Those whom are 45 and flying for a major- doing it again if someone were to tell you. " I will give you 300K a year and a Pitts to switch to Real Estate." would you do it?

Thanks Gembat

 

[wil]

Sounds like you have a good plan. The real important part is you are single. I assume you have no kids. If this is the case then I say full steam ahead. I can't tell you how posts I have read of mid-30's guys with families wanting to mortgage their future cause they "always wanted to fly". Good luck-

 

[JJJ]

There is no reason you can't do both. With an airline, you will get a decent amount of days off and idle time (sitting in a hotel room, in between flights, etc.), this is time you can work on your second job ie: real estate

 

[Jmmccutc]

here's my $.02 for what it's worth...i see alot of guys that are currently in school with me doing just what you are suggesting, working days, and flying afternoons, nights and weekends...go for it bud, it sounds like your heart is really in the flying and i would say that you seem to have thought things through and have a good idea of the path you want to take...

but hey, i'd leave it up to the guys that have been arround just a bit longer than i have to give you some more sound advice...but like i said, i don't think it's that bad of an idea...

 

[Oakum_Boy]

If I had half a brain in my head, I would have: Had too-many to-list cheesy retail jobs, debt up the azz, be 39 in four years, make 300k, buy a Pitts , fly corporate, and live in the bay area (no thanks), and have an invaluable degree from Riddle to boot. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, where did I go wrong. All I know how to do is spell bankruptcy.

 

[enigma]

I guess it comes down to - Those whom are 45 and flying for a major- doing it again if someone were to tell you. " I will give you 300K a year and a Pitts to switch to Real Estate." would you do it?

Thanks Gembat

I'm not quite fourty-five, and I don't work for a major, but I'd trade the left seat of a MD80 (soon to be A320) at a growing LCC for your Pitts and $300K/year. Heck, I'd trade for the Pitts and $200K. But that's me. I would imagine that the guys who are on furlough from majors would join me in the real estate business. As I think about it, I'd take the $300K, increase productivity by 15%, sell the Pitts and buy me an old Cheyene. Or maybe part ownership of a T33.

But, once again, that's me. I don't need four stripes and an ID badge to feel important. I would rather be home at night with my wife and kids instead of being on an overnignht, fending off the advances of an overage, recently divorced FA who only want's your paycheck.

On a more positive note, If you do want to be a professional pilot. Go for it, you will succeed if you are willing to sacrifice and put in a great deal of hard work.

Good Luck,
enigma

 

[bart]

I am working a job where I easily make as much as most senior airline captains, without standing in line for seniority and the uncertainty of "is my carrier going to go under this year". I fly part time for a 135 carrier and some contract 91 work. You can easily do both. I would not recommend counting on making big money at the majors, as those jobs will be slow to recover and it will take many years to get to where you make over $100k.

I love it this way, I get enough flying without it becoming mundane, and I have a job that is intellectually stimulating all the time. I am home when I want to be, and I have alot of influence over how much money I make. I would go for the real estate IF YOU ENJOY IT. Otherwise you will resent it over time and your results will suffer.

Best of luck with your decision, and let us know how it goes.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

I would go for the real estate IF YOU ENJOY IT. Otherwise you will resent it over time and your results will suffer.

Can't emphasize the enjoying part enough. I make decent green, have decent benies, and an easy (non-flying) schedule but I find myself just going through the motions just to keep the ivory tower happy. There is no enjoyment. Find myself in a rut in that we've gotten used to a certain lifestyle and I am apprehensive in taking a risk and finding something more enjoyable (and still pays well!).
More power to you if you enjoy real estate and/or sales (or the potential money!). Sounds like you're going to fly either way. Given the choice, if I thought I could make more a lot more green in real estate than in flying I'd go for that. Then in your spare time show no mercy to the bugs.

 

[CorpFlyBoy67]

Re: Re: Been Lrking for 4yrs, now I need advice

I would rather be home at night with my wife and kids instead of being on an overnignht, fending off the advances of an overage, recently divorced FA who only want's your paycheck.
Good Luck,
enigma

An overage, recently divorced FA who only wants your paycheck? I have a lot of friends that are Flt Attendants and most of them stay away from us pilot types.

And what paycheck may I ask is it that the FA's want? Most of my friends are divorced and with child support payments and some alimony, they don't have much of a paycheck left.

I think it's kind of funny that we complain on here about our wages, but then somehow, everyone wants that small paycheck. Most of my FA friends make more money than most pilots. I think I picked the wrong profession! (tongue in cheek of course)

 

[enigma]

Re: Re: Re: Been Lrking for 4yrs, now I need advice

I think it's kind of funny that we complain on here about our wages, but then somehow, everyone wants that small paycheck.

You haven't heard me complaining about my paycheck. I wish it was more, but six figures for this working boy isn't bad. It beats what I can make turning wrenches. It is only when we compare ourselves to senior pilots at carriers that are now losing tons of money that we complain about wages, when we compare ourselves to the average working stiff, we ain't doing so bad.

Clearly, I'm talking about my carrier, not some poor soul stuck in the right seat of a B1900.

enigma

 

[Timebuilder]

Hmmm.

300k and my own plane, flying when and where I like?

Yeah, I'd say you're on the right track!!!

 

[Birdstrike]

Ah, here we go again. I'll speak for the cubicle captains (of which I am chief) that could have attempted the MOVE during the 97-99 boom to a Coex or Skywest but held back. Had a wife who didn't want to be alone, kids getting ready for college, a mortgage, blah blah blah.

Do I regret not trying? Yes. Would it have been smart or best for my family? Hzll no. What made the difference, my age? Nah. It's being married with responsibilities. You are single and that makes all the difference in the world. You can eat spam and live out of your car for as long as it takes to get established. If I were you, I would do the Mesa program before its too late. You can always go back to plan B if it's not what you thought it would be. Plan A will only be available for so long and your clock is ticking. Enigma's advice is right on as well. You don't need the stripes on your sleeve...but if you want them or something akin to it...get moving. Eight years with your head up your buttt is long enough. Good luck!

 

[bobbysamd]

Age and aviation careers

I'll be late into the game and may have to go corporate and give up on Majors, but given my track record with flying it seems like the safest bet.

I agree that corporate would be your safest bet. As someone starting late in the game, your age will work against you with the regionals. The regionals discriminate against late-life career-changers.

I realize that many people here are tired of me pointing out age discrimination against late-life career-changers, but I feel a responsibility to write it up every time someone older is looking toward the career. Trust me, it exists. Aside from my and my friends' anecdotal evidence of age discrimination, there is legal authority which companies use to justify it, and we have an experienced H.R. person in our group who has opined regarding age discrimination.

I do not believe age discrimination is rampant in corporate flying because the hiring hierarchy is different. For that reason, I think that corporate is your best plan and I wish you luck with it.

 

[Timebuilder]

Bobby raises an intersting factor.

If you can get the right connections, you might be able to make this work. Without them, corporate is VERY difficult.