beechjet

[unclematty]

Hey folks,

The owner of our Be-200 walked into the office the other day and announced he wants a beechjet. I am in search of any information y'all might have. I am planning to find a 400a, but need to know which mods., sb's, and the like to look for. Thanks for the help!!!!

unclematty

 

[hogdriver00]

Beechjet

What type of profiles do you usually fly? How many pax? Any high altitude airports?

 

[hawkerjock]

Save yourself alot of hassle and get an ultra

 

[LR25]

Get a Westwind.

 

[unclematty]

If I recommend a ultra, then the owner will want to fly it by himself. that ain't gonna happen.

the westwind is a "dead" airplane (support, parts, RVSM, etc.)

For the person who asked, no we are not planning any high airports or long trips (max of 1400 nm). thanks for taking my question seriously.

 

[hogdriver00]

Beechjet

For the person who asked, no we are not planning any high airports or long trips (max of 1400 nm). thanks for taking my question seriously.


1400 Nm in a Beechjet only comes with a fuel stop(s). You can put A LOT of stuff in a King Air. You can't in a Beechjet. What about an XL? It's not single pilot.

 

[capt_zman]

We have the 16,300 mtow mod, so we can fit quite a bit. Typically take 4 people at 180 lbs each with a 30 lb bag. 2 out of the 3 beechjets we have fit 4700 lbs of fuel, topped off, other one fits the full 4900 lbs. So with this configuration, we are 16,468 ramp weight. (with 2 170 lb pilots and standard provisions).

It's a good 3 1/2 airplane with reserves. So you can do 1400nm if you're up high (certified to 45,000, which you won't do with the aforementioned load). 390, 410 seem to work best for economy, with 430 an option. .73 is good lrc and .75 or .76 is high speed.

All collins equiped with the ams-5000, 3 tube. Great little airplane with a decent operating cost. Makes for a good 4 person airplane, but anything more than that gets tight.

One advantage I think is that it does not have boots. Uses bleed air for the wings and engine and electric for the horizontal stab.

I have a pretty cool weight and balance excel spreadsheet done for all of our airplanes. Let me know if you want it and you can play with loading and see what it will do.

 

[Lifter]

BE-400A

Capt_Z
Where do you fly BE-400s out off and are they hiring? I'm retiring from AF as T-1A PIT (Pilot Instructor Training Pilot) with just over 1950 ours IP time in T-1A with over 5000 TT (All Jet). Been looking for a good job flying the Beechjets without much luck.
Any ideas?
Lifter

 

[LR25]

If I recommend a ultra, then the owner will want to fly it by himself. that ain't gonna happen.

the westwind is a "dead" airplane (support, parts, RVSM, etc.)

For the person who asked, no we are not planning any high airports or long trips (max of 1400 nm). thanks for taking my question seriously.

WHAT!

It may be ugly, but it will do alot more than most in its catogory.

 

[unclematty]

hog driver,
thanks, I would love to have an Excel, but this guy doesn't want to part with that much money. Even if he did we would look at a F-50. What kind of BLF lengths do you see at MGTOW @ 30 degrees C?

 

[capt_zman]

These numbers are out of the 16,100 checklist, as I don't have a 16,300 handy.

All numbers are at the 16,100 gross, sea level
It's also tablulated data, so all the requirements for that are in these numbers as well (zero gradient, no tailwind, etc.)

flaps 10
30 degrees - 4731 ft.
20 degrees - 4302 ft.
15 degrees - 4169 ft.

flaps 20
30 degrees - 4380 ft.
20 degrees - 3936 ft.
15 degrees - 3802 ft.

The 16,300 numbers will vary slightly.

 

[hawkerjock]

Those are dry numbers. If you want to have some fun look at the wet numbers. I have seen landing numbers on wet (Over tenth of an inch) runways reach over 7000 feet. And no this is not at max landing weight. But really, look at the new landing data on a beechjet and compare to some other aircraft.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Will you be doing circling approaches? The first poster asked what profiles you would be flying. For good reason- the straight wing Citation is a safer platform for operating into less than ideal airports without ILS.

The Beechjet I'm sure has higher Vref figures then add manuvering factor to get your aircraft category- B or C for the Citation, and probably D for the 400A?

Just my thoughts....

 

[unclematty]

thanks for the BFL data, this thing should fit at our home base. Other than the gross weight mod are there any other glaring mods. or service bulletins I should look for?

 

[unclematty]

oak, good point. our company policy is not to circle. Fortunatly, this is not a problem as most of the airports we travel to are served by GPS or other non-percision/percision approaches to each landing runway.
If we are forced to circle we mandate a cat C minima in the King Air, if its a jet its an automatic cat D minima.

thanks again

 

[Lifter]

TOLD program for T-1A (beech 400A)

Here is a told program for the T-1A, similiar (without thrust reversers), isn't legal but can be used for verifying your calculations.

http://www.jeremybergin.com/t1driver/toldcalc.xls

When it asks for password just hit cancel, then enable macros. You can play with different conditions and locations. Change the yellow boxes and the grey conditions. If you base isn't in the database you can add it on the other worksheets.

We circle at Cat "C", but can't practice it single engine.

Some of our TOLD definitions are different in the AF.

S1 is similiar to your V1: S1<= Vrot, Vrefusal, Vbmax, but > Vcefs or Vmcg

Most of our problems appear to be more climbout vs runway (unless its wet). We need to make 3.3 climbout factor (200'/nm) single engine, and at around 32C and 500'pa you need to start changing takeoff conditions, ie flap settings, ACM or both. We also have a 400' and 1500' flap retract profile to improve climbout profile.

Beechjet seems like a good choice from what I've experienced in it, we usually takeoff fully grossed and fly a 3 hour training profile (usually not very fuel efficient, low levels, MOA etc) but when we go X-Country we have no problem cruising over 3+30 hours easily ( 4+20 total reserve)and we use a 500# min fuel penalty.

Typical fuel flows FL250 250KIAS=1200#/HR (375 TAS)
FL250 300KIAS=1500#/HR (425 TAS)

Our service ceiling is FL410 (didn't have it tested above there)
FL 410 .74 Mach =850#/hr (but it won't make it up there for over an hour)

Any other info just ask and I'll see if we have something similiar for the T-1A
lifter

 

[jergar999]

Lifter

There is a job for Beechjet pilots on climbto350.com right now.

 

[devine9driver]

We have been able to pack 7 people @170 ea. 50lbs. of Bags, and 4350 lbs. of fuel and fly with 40-50 kts. of headwind for 1200NM at FL390 and land with our co. required 1000lbs. of reserve fuel. We do this flight every month and a typical fuel burn for us at 390 is 3250lbs. of fuel. If you can get a hold of a Beechjet performance manual you could go to fltplan.com and plug all of the numbers into the profile's and play around with some numbers. We find that fltplan.com's numbers are always within 50lbs. of fuel burn and 5 min of flight time. And the service is free. Our numbers do reflect the gross weight mod (16,300 MTOW).

 

[devine9driver]

I just looked at our last couple profile sheets for the above mentioned trip. I must correct one thing headwinds are usually below 25kts. The trip usually runs 2hrs and 50min, and our burns for each hour are 1500 for 1st 950 2nd and 800 for last segment. We typically see 420KTAS to start and 430KTAS in the second half as we lighten up at 390.

 

[Kingairrick]

One caveat:

DONT even think of trying to operate a BE-400 part 135. My old company has one on the cert. Take the above landing distance numbers and imagine trying to fit those into 60% of the available runway. You'll find that you need a 5000 foot runway to land,...IF it's dry.

 

[Rick1128]

As for 135, there are several being operated under that Part. As for landing distance, that is the distance that most Lear operators draw the line anyway. High performance jets require longer runways.

 

[Kingairrick]

Our Cl-604 takes less runway under 135....just something to watch out for. My .02.

 

[Rick1128]

You are starting to talk about a totally different airplane. The two aircraft were designed with different criteria. The 604 is a top of the line corporate barge. The Beechjet was a low end jet designed to compete with the Citations and Lear 31.

The Beech does not have leading edge devices. They increase the cost of the aircraft greatly. Plus increase the empty weight of the aircraft. All aircraft are compromises.

My biggest concerns about the Beech is the single tires. Down in my area, it is not uncommon to see Citations and Beechjets, slowly sinking into the pavement on a hot summers day.

 

[capt_zman]

we fly 135 on raytheon's certificate, as well as 9 others on the certificate. then there's charterops with 3 and talon air with a couple more.

so i know of 17 beechjets currently flying 135, and someone suggested not to even think about it???

5000 ft is a good rule of thumb, but what other jet is going to operate out of less than 5000 in a 135 environment?

 

[Rick1128]

Well the Falcon 50.

 

[capt_zman]

Good point with the Falcon. For its class though, the beechjet is really a good option.

Flew with a Raytheon sales rep last night, said all new beechjets are sold out until next april. They must be doing something right.

 

[unclematty]

Thanks for all the info folks. Looks like it was all for nothing. Anyone need a 135 currnet capt. for a BE-200???

 

[GVFlyer]

Beechjet

I did a closed- loop handlings quality evaluation of the 400A for the military. I did not like the manner in which the spoilerons dimenished stall and single- engine capabilities, nor the yaw dampner that could not completely compensate for the jet's inherent dutch role characteristics. The airplane has a slow roll rate and turns slowly. Interior volume is good as is ground handling. You can't fill the seats and the fuel tanks. The powerplants are adequate. I think the Air Force selected it for TTBS because of it's ponderous handling characteristics which closely replicate a C-141.

I'd pick a Cessna for this application.

GV