Aspiring to be
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2002
- Posts
- 95
Never turn A/S off on rollout!
Aspiriring I can't tell what you were saying. I'm not sure if you were quoting something or what you were saying.
A/S in a citation puts a annuciator light on the panel. Anything below 15-12kts turns the a/s off. Why would you turn the a/s off? The ntsb would love the fact that you turned the a/s off right before you slid off the runway.
If the system fails it fails. At least the switch will be in a position it was supposed to be in. Check the numbers for a landing anti skid off. It's a long number.
We aren't talking 75''s and that sort. We are talking beechjet's and that size.
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I was not trying to be disagreeable. In a previous post I said that you should never turn the A/S off to improve stopping distance. The min stopping distance is achieved by using max braking and let the A/S work to prevent hydroplaning. That is an undeniable fact.
I was responding to a post where the person said that it would take a lot more runway and you would probably blow your tires. This is just not true. On a dry runway using normal procedure you should not have any trouble. I will say again that if you cause the A/S to active on landing on a dry runway your procedure, well sucks. I do not care if you are flying a B-747-400 or a Cessna. If you land other than an emergency condition and have to use max breaking thereby requiring the A/S to prevent hydroplaning you have made the wrong decision or selected the wrong airport. I stated that landing on a contaminated runway the activation of the A/S can on occasion occur.
Yes landing without A/S requires more runway but a clean runway it is not that much and you should not blow your tires. Can you blow your tires, yes, but to me the real danger or concern about landing without A/S is flat spotting a tire. Some of the larger aircraft even with A/S you can still flat spot a tire. Flat spotting a tire and blowing a tire are two different things. Like I said I would not land a Hawker without A/S on a contaminated runway of 5000 feet or less but I would land without A/S on a dry runway of 5000 feet.
If you look at the numbers say for a Hawker, landing wt. 21000, standard day, sea level, calm winds the landing distance is 2473, landing field dry is 4121, landing field wet is 4740. You can almost land the Hawker on a dry runway of 5000 feet and landing weight of 21000 lbs and never use breaks. If you land without A/S the penalty would be applied to landing distance and not the landing field. It would affect the landing field but the penalty would be applied to the landing distance. Why anyone would ever think that max breaking would be normal is beyond me. Have you ever had the A/S to activate on landing on a dry runway? I do who hope not.
My previous response was to the poster that said it was such a big deal and that you would blow tires, etc. Sorry but I believe that is just not true. I would be willing to make a bet that I could land and stop any aircraft with reasonable runway without A/S without blowing a tire. I am not the ace of the base and I hope that most pilots could do the same. Yes if I was operating the sim I could hit the button that says blown tire but that is a compound problem and not one that should be cause by the fact that you landed without A/S.
Now bottom line and I state again you should never turn the A/S off in any aircraft to decrease stopping distance. Min stopping distance is achieved by using max brakes and allowing the A/S to prevent hydroplaning thereby given you the min stop distance.
I do believe that landing on a contaminated runway you should as a normal procedure use aerodynamic breaking until you are well below hydroplaning speed for your aircraft before using any brakes. If you find that you must use brakes above hydroplaning speed you again are some place you should not be. I only made the statement that on contaminated ramp I like to turn the A/S off due to the fact that I have seen the A/S activate at low speeds where it was supposed to be auto off. I am not saying that I think it should be normal procedure. I am saying that I do that and I will continue to do so. I have several things that I do that I do not expect all to do, I am sure all I do is maybe not the best thing. Many times as I approach a gate where the ramp is very slippery I will open the reversers and even use reverse thrust when on a down slope. I have had to do this several times on large aircraft to be able to stop without hitting the terminal.
It might not be a procedure in the book but I know that most all aircraft with reversers will back up. Now I am not saying that backing up an aircraft is normal procedure but in some aircraft it is approved procedure. I also am not trying to give lessons, but I do not believe that landing without A/S is a big deal. I do not believe that landing without A/S will mean that you will blow your tires. I do believe that taking off without A/S is a much bigger deal. I would want a bunch of extra runway for takeoff. I do not believe in scare tactics such as you will blow your tires. I do not think the poster really meant it as a scare tactic but that is the way it came across to me.
Normal abort procedure will be changed. Some types (maybe only larger types) use auto brakes for abort, without A/S you could not arm the auto breaks. All of the auto brakes that I can think of are activated by reverse thrust above 80 knots. Not being able to touch the brakes on abort is difficult when you first start training in such a system.
Gereral statement never land an aircraft with 4 mains or more with more than 1 A/S release light on with the A/S on. Never land an aircraft with only 2 main wheels with any A/S release light on with the A/S on.
While flying with some of the younger pilots the biggest fault that I find is the reliance on auto systems and computers. Steam gauges still work for me and I believe in them.
Aspiriring I can't tell what you were saying. I'm not sure if you were quoting something or what you were saying.
A/S in a citation puts a annuciator light on the panel. Anything below 15-12kts turns the a/s off. Why would you turn the a/s off? The ntsb would love the fact that you turned the a/s off right before you slid off the runway.
If the system fails it fails. At least the switch will be in a position it was supposed to be in. Check the numbers for a landing anti skid off. It's a long number.
We aren't talking 75''s and that sort. We are talking beechjet's and that size.
_________________________________________________
I was not trying to be disagreeable. In a previous post I said that you should never turn the A/S off to improve stopping distance. The min stopping distance is achieved by using max braking and let the A/S work to prevent hydroplaning. That is an undeniable fact.
I was responding to a post where the person said that it would take a lot more runway and you would probably blow your tires. This is just not true. On a dry runway using normal procedure you should not have any trouble. I will say again that if you cause the A/S to active on landing on a dry runway your procedure, well sucks. I do not care if you are flying a B-747-400 or a Cessna. If you land other than an emergency condition and have to use max breaking thereby requiring the A/S to prevent hydroplaning you have made the wrong decision or selected the wrong airport. I stated that landing on a contaminated runway the activation of the A/S can on occasion occur.
Yes landing without A/S requires more runway but a clean runway it is not that much and you should not blow your tires. Can you blow your tires, yes, but to me the real danger or concern about landing without A/S is flat spotting a tire. Some of the larger aircraft even with A/S you can still flat spot a tire. Flat spotting a tire and blowing a tire are two different things. Like I said I would not land a Hawker without A/S on a contaminated runway of 5000 feet or less but I would land without A/S on a dry runway of 5000 feet.
If you look at the numbers say for a Hawker, landing wt. 21000, standard day, sea level, calm winds the landing distance is 2473, landing field dry is 4121, landing field wet is 4740. You can almost land the Hawker on a dry runway of 5000 feet and landing weight of 21000 lbs and never use breaks. If you land without A/S the penalty would be applied to landing distance and not the landing field. It would affect the landing field but the penalty would be applied to the landing distance. Why anyone would ever think that max breaking would be normal is beyond me. Have you ever had the A/S to activate on landing on a dry runway? I do who hope not.
My previous response was to the poster that said it was such a big deal and that you would blow tires, etc. Sorry but I believe that is just not true. I would be willing to make a bet that I could land and stop any aircraft with reasonable runway without A/S without blowing a tire. I am not the ace of the base and I hope that most pilots could do the same. Yes if I was operating the sim I could hit the button that says blown tire but that is a compound problem and not one that should be cause by the fact that you landed without A/S.
Now bottom line and I state again you should never turn the A/S off in any aircraft to decrease stopping distance. Min stopping distance is achieved by using max brakes and allowing the A/S to prevent hydroplaning thereby given you the min stop distance.
I do believe that landing on a contaminated runway you should as a normal procedure use aerodynamic breaking until you are well below hydroplaning speed for your aircraft before using any brakes. If you find that you must use brakes above hydroplaning speed you again are some place you should not be. I only made the statement that on contaminated ramp I like to turn the A/S off due to the fact that I have seen the A/S activate at low speeds where it was supposed to be auto off. I am not saying that I think it should be normal procedure. I am saying that I do that and I will continue to do so. I have several things that I do that I do not expect all to do, I am sure all I do is maybe not the best thing. Many times as I approach a gate where the ramp is very slippery I will open the reversers and even use reverse thrust when on a down slope. I have had to do this several times on large aircraft to be able to stop without hitting the terminal.
It might not be a procedure in the book but I know that most all aircraft with reversers will back up. Now I am not saying that backing up an aircraft is normal procedure but in some aircraft it is approved procedure. I also am not trying to give lessons, but I do not believe that landing without A/S is a big deal. I do not believe that landing without A/S will mean that you will blow your tires. I do believe that taking off without A/S is a much bigger deal. I would want a bunch of extra runway for takeoff. I do not believe in scare tactics such as you will blow your tires. I do not think the poster really meant it as a scare tactic but that is the way it came across to me.
Normal abort procedure will be changed. Some types (maybe only larger types) use auto brakes for abort, without A/S you could not arm the auto breaks. All of the auto brakes that I can think of are activated by reverse thrust above 80 knots. Not being able to touch the brakes on abort is difficult when you first start training in such a system.
Gereral statement never land an aircraft with 4 mains or more with more than 1 A/S release light on with the A/S on. Never land an aircraft with only 2 main wheels with any A/S release light on with the A/S on.
While flying with some of the younger pilots the biggest fault that I find is the reliance on auto systems and computers. Steam gauges still work for me and I believe in them.
