Beech 1900 SIC

[MtrHedAP]

My question is do you need a SIC type rating on the Beech 1900 to act as second in command? It would be for a part 135. Also the captain is not rated for single pilot privileges in the 1900. I have read the regs for SIC and do not fully understand them.

Thanks in advance.

 

[CA1900]

"SIC type ratings" are a paperwork exercise required for international operations. If you're staying in the US, they're not required by the FAA.

Here's some more info: http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/sic/

 

[MtrHedAP]

Thanks.
I will be flying in africa though on a south african validation off my US license. Does that mean i need one?

 

[CA1900]

In that case, I believe you will need one, yes. That NBAA link I posted has good information on how to get it. It's not a full type rating or anything like that -- there isn't a checkride for it. It just shows foreign aviation entities that you're appropriately trained in the airplane for which you're acting as a required crewmember.

Good luck! Sounds like a fun trip.

 

[MtrHedAP]

Thanks that link has alot of great information. So i guess i would need one unless south african regs dont require it. - Or the country I am flying in. I will now need to research their regulations. I know that south africans need a type rating to fly any airplane, even a 172 or PA-28.

 

[erj-145mech]

You'll also be likely to need the "English Profecient" endorsement on your certificate too.

 

[JAFI]

You might want to check that. The B1900 like other SFAR 41 aircraft are SINGLE PILOT required for that type aircraft. See the Type data certificate. If the PIC has a limitation "must have SIC" then it requires a SIC but I do not think there is a SIC type rating for a single pilot aircraft.

 

[JAFI]

From the NBAA web site posted by CA1900:

When an SIC Type Rating is Required

The final rule requires pilots who plan to fly outside U.S. airspace and land in foreign countries, and who are acting as second-in-command of an aircraft certificated for operations with a minimum flight crew of at least two pilots, to obtain an SIC pilot type rating.

 

[MtrHedAP]

Thanks to all that replied. Clears that up.

 

[great cornholio]

You might want to check that. The B1900 like other SFAR 41 aircraft are SINGLE PILOT required for that type aircraft. See the Type data certificate. If the PIC has a limitation "must have SIC" then it requires a SIC but I do not think there is a SIC type rating for a single pilot aircraft.

For what its worth when I flew the 1900 there was a limit that said if it was flown single pilot that the number of pax was limited to 9 or less. I don't remember if that was a Beech, company, or FAA thing, but I do remember that 9 was definately the number, and I know that we had a few guys that were "single pilot typed" and they would only fly single pilot on repo or ferry flights. I left before I upgraded so I never got the 1900 type so I don't know if it says "requires an SIC" and I don't have an SIC type because I flew the 1900 years ago before that crazy SIC type thing was done.

 

[jmreii]

Do not know what is required overseas, have always been told that some countries use two pilots on all aircraft no matter how small. they also do not fly night VFR, go figure. When I flew the 1900 in the states, our opecs/135/121 called for two pilots, no SIC type for the fo at that time. different world today. good luck!

 

[JAFI]

I think you are mixing up several operation requirements and regulations for pilot and aircraft certification. Let me dust off my brain and see if I can remember this stuff. And pardon me if I don’t go into great detail for each part but go for the broad overview.

“Small Aircraft” as defined by the FAA are now certified under CFR 23.

“Transport Aircraft” are now certified under CFR 25.

20 plus years ago the 19 passenger aircraft came into their own but they were larger than Part 23 aircraft and smaller than most part 25 aircraft. The FAA was going to write a new FAR - Part 24 for certification of “Commuter aircraft” but the aircraft came quicker than the regulation. Since the regulation was not out yet and companies wanted to operate the new aircraft, the FAA Issued Special FAR (SFAR) 41 for several 19 passenger aircraft. This SFAR expired after one year but was always re-issued each year. This regulation is supposed to completely go away in 2010. Most, if not all were single pilot aircraft as requested by their manufacturer. Because they were over 12,500 lbs they required a Type Rating to be the PIC. At first there was no SIC required to fly in a non “airline” operation. Then (under part 135) a second pilot was required for Scheduled passenger Operations. Many companies trained and tested with a two pilot crew so the PIC type rating came with the limitation “Must have an SIC” because the PIC only demonstrated they could do the Type ride with a SIC on board. The company could have (and some did) train and test with only one pilot and the pilot did not get the limitation on their certificate.

So there is no SIC rating for a one pilot only required aircraft.

20 plus years ago (as I recall) any aircraft with under 31 passengers was operated part 135 and they were required to operate with two pilots with seats for more than 10 passengers. Today any aircraft with 9 or less passenger seats is operated under part 135 and can be operated with a single pilot (with some limitations) and the 19 passenger aircraft is operated under part 121.

As a recap – Aircraft are certified for specific operations.

Pilots are certified for specific operations – (private/commercial/ATP) each with limitations and privileges.

Companies are certified for specific operations – Charter (part 135) – Air Carrier (part 121) – Flight School (141 or 142) – etc.

Then you get into the ICAO that required a SIC type rating for some (not all) countries.

So it “DEPENDS” on the operation what is required over the minimum. In this case the Beech 1900 is certified a single pilot aircraft. If you operate it under part 121 it is a two pilot aircraft. If you operate it under 91 it is a single pilot aircraft (I’m not going into insurance requirements). If the PIC took their type ride with a SIC they will have a limitation on their certificate “SIC required” and must always fly with an SIC regardless of type of operation. In other countries you must operate under their rules what ever they are.

It is time for me to get another cup of coffee in case I lost someone……

 

[jmreii]

you are right it depends on the operation.

 

[great cornholio]

That all sounds good. I just remember that one of the "limitations" that we had to remember was that if it was flown single pilot then the number of pax was limited to 9. And like I said its been a few years since I left Colgan so I don't remember whos rule that was...although the thought just came into my head that Beech said 9 pax and Colgan had a rule of zero pax, but that might be wrong. Anyways I was reading this and saw that the 9 pax thing had not been mentioned so I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Why are you flying for an operation that doesn't know the answer to this or is not paying for you to obtain it?

 

[jmreii]

That all sounds good. I just remember that one of the "limitations" that we had to remember was that if it was flown single pilot then the number of pax was limited to 9. And like I said its been a few years since I left Colgan so I don't remember whos rule that was...although the thought just came into my head that Beech said 9 pax and Colgan had a rule of zero pax, but that might be wrong. Anyways I was reading this and saw that the 9 pax thing had not been mentioned so I thought I'd throw it out there.

It has been years since I have flown passengers under 135, but I believe the rules went 9 passenger seats or less it was single pilot; 10 pasenger seats or more it was a pilot and co-pilot and something about an autopilot in lieu of. please do not quote my on this.

 

[MtrHedAP]

Thanks for the new replies. The company I am working for sent us new FO's to denver for an SIC type on the 1900. This consisted of a week of ground school 3 sim sessions as pilot flying and 3 as pilot monitoring. We also had a checkride with an FAA examiner. I know the checkride is not required they just wanted to make sure we applied ourselves. On my comm license it has 1900 type with "SIC privileges only". One of the guys did not pass the checkride and did not get the SIC type but was still able to hold his job and go to work. We all felt this was wrong because we were under the impression that we needed to have 1900 SIC to act as copilot overseas, or landing in another country. I have now learned it depends on the particular country. Our operations require 2 pilots. Just was trying to clear the air.

 

[great cornholio]

Thanks for the new replies. The company I am working for sent us new FO's to denver for an SIC type on the 1900. This consisted of a week of ground school 3 sim sessions as pilot flying and 3 as pilot monitoring. We also had a checkride with an FAA examiner. I know the checkride is not required they just wanted to make sure we applied ourselves. On my comm license it has 1900 type with "SIC privileges only". One of the guys did not pass the checkride and did not get the SIC type but was still able to hold his job and go to work. We all felt this was wrong because we were under the impression that we needed to have 1900 SIC to act as copilot overseas, or landing in another country. I have now learned it depends on the particular country. Our operations require 2 pilots. Just was trying to clear the air.

Congrats man. I had a blast in the 1900.

 

[JAFI]

Where did you get a 1900 SIC type rating?

 

[MtrHedAP]

It was a place called SATCO i think. Located in Centennial CO, near Denver. Not sure if they are still doing them I think they are big into manufacturing sims.

 

[JAFI]

Well it took some digging and some phone calls but, the short answer is there is an SIC Type rating for aircraft that only require one pilot IF the operation requires two pilots.

61.55 Second-in-command qualifications.
(a) A person may serve as a second-in-command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second-in-command pilot flight crewmember only if that person holds:

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I could not find any guidance that talked about a Single Pilot Typed aircraft requiring a SIC but found in 61.55 requiring a SIC depending on kind of operation. To meet the ICAO requirements the SIC type rating can be required and thus pilot certified.

Aviation is always dynamic.... And if you keep your ears open, learn something every day.

JAFI