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Beating Dizel8 to the "punch" about DL losses

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General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/19/05

Delta Air Lines' recent decision to outsource major aircraft overhauls complicates the struggling carrier's efforts to rebuild strained ties to employees as it continues to cut costs, CEO Gerald Grinstein says.

In a move that will eliminate hundreds of jobs, Delta recently announced it will outsource all major aircraft overhauls and shrink its Atlanta and Tampa hangars by early summer to cut maintenance costs by $240 million over five years.

EXCEPT FOR DISCOUNTERS, A BLEAK PICTURE Big airlines will post more big losses this week
Company / Reporting day/ Est. first-quarter profit (loss)
Continental Wednesday ($192 million)
American Wednesday ($303 million)
Delta Thursday ($657 million)
Northwest Thursday ($375 million)
JetBlue Thursday $2.1 million
Sources: Bloomberg News and Zacks Investment Research


The airline's decision to go outside its huge maintenance operation "is seen by a lot of people inside Delta as a total break from the past," said Grinstein, speaking Monday to the Southern Institute, a Decatur-based organization focused on business and professional ethics.

Until now, he said, Delta has contracted out a smaller share of maintenance work than other carriers.

"That is the kind of decision that has an effect on trust. ... People are going to say to themselves, 'If it happens there, am I next?' " said Grinstein. "Our job is to stabilize that feeling."

Grinstein, a longtime Delta director, said the carrier has improved employee and customer relations in a number of areas since he stepped in as chief executive 15 months ago. He said a move to cap and simplify fares has increased traffic. A shift to a more efficient schedule at Delta's Atlanta hub "has made us a far more reliable company," he said.

But whatever turnaround progress has been made won't be apparent in Delta's first-quarter earnings report, due Thursday.

Delta is expected to report a first-quarter loss of about $670 million, excluding one-time charges, among the worst results in the industry. Wall Street analysts expect airlines' first-quarter red ink to total billions, despite several fare increases in recent weeks to help offset high fuel costs.

Roger King, an analyst with CreditSights.com, said he thinks Delta could do slightly better than projections because of strong March traffic. But fuel still hobbles airlines, he added.

Crude oil prices have declined to about $50 a barrel — about 12 percent below record levels of two weeks ago. While the decline gives airlines some relief, jet fuel prices remain about 50 percent above year-ago levels.

Some industry analysts say crude oil needs to drop near $40 per barrel for Delta to avoid a cash crunch as early as this fall that could revive the possibility of a Chapter 11 filing. Such a filing would enable Delta to keep flying while it renegotiated debts under a judge's supervision.

Delta narrowly avoided a filing last fall with last-minute pay cut and vendor financing deals, but fuel has offset those gains.

"Our business plan was built on $40-to-$50 oil," said Grinstein. Delta's fuel bill is now expected to be $900 million to $1 billion higher than earlier projections. "Our challenge is to get more costs out to compensate for that. It is a huge threat to us."

Grinstein conceded there are still wounds among employees from disclosures two years ago that Delta gave bonuses and special pension funds to top executives.

"That broke the trust," said Grinstein, who last year took only half his $500,000 annual salary.

But Grinstein said Delta has to keep digging for deeper cost reductions because of unrelenting pressure from high fuel costs and low fares.

"We have to get our costs planing down, and we have a limited time to do that," Grinstein told the audience of about 80 business people at the Capital City Club.

Grinstein also said the extended bankruptcies of United and US Airways have allowed two prime competitors to avoid making payments on debt and other obligations.

He said the government should consider limiting the time a company can spend in bankruptcy.

"At some point there has to be a stop to it," Grinstein said.




Not good news. There will obviously be some more concession talk soon. I bet we will be "asked" to give another 10-15%, and the other employees also 10-15%. There may be some debt restructuring attempted, and the sale of DCI will be up there. That sounds about right.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
GL how many cuts would you take untill you would not give any more. Not flame bait but a real question. Your 35% cut with no raise in 5 years is nearly a 50% cut after COLA. What are you thoughts on this in direction of your W2.
 
I suppose that they will have to give until their pay + productivity equals that of the bottomfeeders who will do anything to fly jets--aka AirTran, Jblu, SWA.
 
Just wait and watch how the pilots' union is pitted against the other labor groups - might as well just blame all of DAL's problems on those greedy pilots... And forget about the ill-timed fuel hedging debacle and the $2 billion stock buyback 3 years ago that is now worthless... At least Fred Greed gets to enjoy all of the RJs he ordered - whoops...
 
Last edited:
scopeCMRandASA said:
I suppose that they will have to give until their pay + productivity equals that of the bottomfeeders who will do anything to fly jets--aka AirTran, Jblu, SWA.

Hear Ye, hear ye, hear ye the King of Assholia speaketh!
 
FLB717 said:
GL how many cuts would you take untill you would not give any more. Not flame bait but a real question. Your 35% cut with no raise in 5 years is nearly a 50% cut after COLA. What are you thoughts on this in direction of your W2.

Am I happy about such a prospect? No way. Can I see it coming? Sure. Do I think this is an effort by the legacies to get labor costs way down? Possibly. Are we, labor going to pay the difference in higher fuel costs? I bet we will unfortunately. We have very high costs at DL, and they will try to pare them down. Sure,we still have high paying pilot jobs (even after a 32% pay cut) but many of our senior pilots are now gone, with less than 500 older than 50 years old (out of 6500 I believe). I don't want the pay to go down anymore, but I can see some sort of give back--maybe for a couple years or a few years.... I don't know.....Now look at another group---the stews. Most of the 14,000 stews make more than $45 an hour and have more than 10 years with the company. I can bet that that is where the company will aim next to trim costs---they will offer more retirement packages and try to force them out. Of course, that costs more money----usually giving them lump sum type deals with free travel for the rest of their lives. I think DL is cleaning out the closets and trying to get a younger, cheaper workforce. They have succeeded in the pilot ranks so far...


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
FLB717 said:
GL how many cuts would you take untill you would not give any more. Not flame bait but a real question. Your 35% cut with no raise in 5 years is nearly a 50% cut after COLA. What are you thoughts on this in direction of your W2.

They will give until it hurts really bad, then they will give some more in bankruptcy. The senior pilots will make sure that they get theirs, and the rest will take it in the shorts. It is the ALPA way, just look at the history.
 
sleepy said:
They will give until it hurts really bad, then they will give some more in bankruptcy. The senior pilots will make sure that they get theirs, and the rest will take it in the shorts. It is the ALPA way, just look at the history.

That is BS. We will give, but if there isn't a plan then we will give in Chap11 when a plan is required to get out. I think they want to bring our wages down to another Major carrier's so it will be easier for a merger. As far as the "seniors" getting their way, most have left. The guys that are left, the dead zoners who are too young to leave with their lump sums (less than 50 years old), have really lost a lot already. Age 62 or 65 will not happen either---ALPA members are mostly voting no right now... The days of $300 an hour 777 Captains won't be around for a very very long time.

So you get free stuff at Lowes or at least a discount? Lowes is awesome.....


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Age 62 or 65 will not happen either---ALPA members are mostly voting no right now...

Unless there are ALPA members in the House or Senate, I don't think the membership vote will mean anything.

This will pass and you will have the new reg. Its just a matter of how soon.
 
Hobiehawker said:
Unless there are ALPA members in the House or Senate, I don't think the membership vote will mean anything.

This will pass and you will have the new reg. Its just a matter of how soon.

Unless there are House or Senate members in the FAA, I don't think the vote will mean anything.

This will not pass and you will not have a new reg. It's just a matter of how soon.;)
 
Hobiehawker said:
Unless there are ALPA members in the House or Senate, I don't think the membership vote will mean anything.

This will pass and you will have the new reg. Its just a matter of how soon.

Nah. They will ask ALPA their opinion first, and they will say it creates too much risk. And, if you don't think ALPA has their "hands" in members of the House and Senate pockets, you are kidding yourself....

But, it may eventually pass----in thirty years.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Hobiehawker said:
Unless there are ALPA members in the House or Senate, I don't think the membership vote will mean anything.

Funny, I didn't think the House or Senate wrote the FARs, I always thought it was the FAA. Oh well, I guess I learn something everyday here on flightinfo.:)
 
Thats one big chip on yer shoulder fella...

scopeCMRandASA said:
I suppose that they will have to give until their pay + productivity equals that of the bottomfeeders who will do anything to fly jets--aka AirTran, Jblu, SWA.


But I thought you liked us SWA guys ref quote you made below?

"I posted it, and I heard it independantly from the 10 or so captains from SWA, who I play golf with.[/QUOTE]
 
scopeCMRandASA said:
I suppose that they will have to give until their pay + productivity equals that of the bottomfeeders who will do anything to fly jets--aka AirTran, Jblu, SWA.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't SWA pilots among the highest compensated in the industry (for type of aircraft), along with Alaska...for now.
 
Kid Charlemagne said:
Hey General,

You still think Mother Delta will try to sell off ComAir and ASA?

Yeah, I think they will. It will help with the cash crunch at the end of this year. We are still trying to see benefits from all of the cost cutting we have done, but it takes a while to see some initially.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
scopeCMRandASA said:
I suppose that they will have to give until their pay + productivity equals that of the bottomfeeders who will do anything to fly jets--aka AirTran, Jblu, SWA.

I would have to assume that "SWA" is SkyWest and not Southwest, since WN have the highest paid 737 operators of any US airline. If you meant Southwest then you are obviously talking out your A$$.:p
 
QCappy said:
I would have to assume that "SWA" is SkyWest and not Southwest, since WN have the highest paid 737 operators of any US airline. If you meant Southwest then you are obviously talking out your A$$.:p

Notice that he said pay + productivity. Sure WN has higher pay, but its offset by higher productivity. For most of the majors, productivity is a dirty word.
 
MedFlyer said:
Notice that he said pay + productivity. Sure WN has higher pay, but its offset by higher productivity. For most of the majors, productivity is a dirty word.

Exactly. That is one of the many problems with the industry. Too many can be bought off with money. The post was worded correctly.
 
MedFlyer said:
Notice that he said pay + productivity. Sure WN has higher pay, but its offset by higher productivity. For most of the majors, productivity is a dirty word.

Then again you are comparing Southwest and LCCs to Legacy carriers, which have different styles of operation. I guess it would be tough to have a "productive" legacy pilot who flies to Tokyo from ATL once a week? How many of those do you want him/her to do? Ever fly a 14 hour leg nonstop? Sure, Southwest and the other LCCs pilots fly 7 hours a day for 4 straight days and get a large trip worth 28 hours. Can you do that on the INTL side? I know 30 and 7 doesn't count on the INTL side, but do you want a CO 777 Capt to fly one more trip to Manchester, England from Newark a day after he just did a EWR to Delhi, India nonstop and back? Can you compare that to Southwest and their schedules? Domestically too---can you compare a hub and spoke operation with two hour breaks to a Southwest trip that flies a straight line across the country with 5 stops in between?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General,

You make some good points. But all I know is it sure would be nice to be pulling down WN wages!

I hear you got some senior skippers over there who fly their butts off and are grossing well over 300k annually!! Sweet!!!
 
Kid Charlemagne said:
General,

You make some good points. But all I know is it sure would be nice to be pulling down WN wages!

I hear you got some senior skippers over there who fly their butts off and are grossing well over 300k annually!! Sweet!!!

I don't know about that, but most of the senior skippers are gone or will be by May 1st. We have lost 1200 captains since last May, and we will retire another 200 or so in 10 days. I think there have been a few that are working very hard to get a larger lump sum, and that is expected---they probably have had a few divorces....

WN wages for the 737 should be the highest---they are doing the best financially.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
A loss of 684 M excluding one time charges. Man that is a lot of dough!


"Delta's 1Q Loss Nearly Triples on Charge
Thursday April 21, 11:49 am ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer
Delta's 1Q Loss Nearly Triples on Record High Fuel Prices, Charge Partly Related to Job Cuts


ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines Inc., the nation's third-largest carrier, blamed record high fuel prices and a hefty charge partly related to job cuts as it reported its first-quarter loss nearly tripled to more than $1 billion despite a more than 3 percent rise in revenue.
ADVERTISEMENT


The results, announced before the market opened Thursday, missed Wall Street expectations, but Delta shares rose 12 cents, or 3.3 percent, to $3.77 in late morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange as the airline said its transformation plan is on target.

The Atlanta-based company said that for the three months ending March 31 it lost $1.08 billion, or $7.64 a share, compared to a loss of $387 million, or $3.12 a share, for the same period a year ago. The current loss includes $5 million in dividends paid out to preferred shareholders.

Delta's loss dwarfed those reported over the past two days by other major carriers for the quarter. On Wednesday, Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR Corp., parent of American Airlines, posted a $162 million loss and Houston-based Continental Airlines Inc. said it lost $184 million in the quarter. Northwest Airlines Corp. of Eagan, Minn. posted a $458 million quarterly loss on Thursday.

Excluding one-time items, Delta said it lost $684 million, or $4.89 a share. Analysts surveyed by Thomson Financial were expecting a loss of $4.76 a share excluding one-time items.

Revenue rose 3.3 percent to $3.65 billion, compared to $3.53 billion recorded a year ago.

"Today's financial results clearly are disappointing," said Gerald Grinstein, Delta's chief executive officer. "Record-breaking fuel prices are masking the many crucial, large-scale, core initiatives our airline implemented during the quarter."

He added, "The issue is simple: including fuel, Delta is not on plan, but excluding fuel, we are better than plan."

Chief financial officer Michael Palumbo told investors in a conference call that even though fuel prices weighed heavily on Delta's results, the airline was able to cut costs in other areas as part of its transformation plan. At the same time, he said the company's total debt remains at $20.5 billion, noting that "We clearly have more work to do."

Delta's loss reported Thursday is on top of another $8.5 billion Delta has lost since 2001.

In the first quarter, Delta recorded a $453 million charge primarily due to the cost of pension benefits related to the planned reduction of 6,000 to 7,000 jobs announced in September and the partial freeze of benefit accruals under the pilot defined benefit plan. It also recorded other charges related to the pilot pension plan and an aircraft settlement. Delta recorded a $144 million benefit from a reduction in its deferred income tax asset reserve.

Delta indicated that its situation could get even worse because of projected further increases in fuel prices.

It said that every 1 cent increase in the average annual cost per gallon of jet fuel costs Delta roughly $25 million in additional fuel expense per year. Delta's business plan assumes an average fuel price per gallon in 2005 of $1.22. However, it said Thursday that projections call for crude oil prices to be substantially higher for 2005 than Delta's business plan, and the airline has no hedges or contractual arrangements in place that would reduce its jet fuel costs below market prices.

Delta ended the quarter with $1.8 billion in unrestricted cash.

The airline said its capital expenditures for the June 2005 quarter are estimated to be roughly $350 million, including $210 million for aircraft. Capital expenditures for all of 2005 are estimated to be roughly $1 billion, including $570 million for aircraft.

Delta said all of its regional jet aircraft deliveries in 2005 will be financed under existing agreements. The remaining mainline aircraft to be delivered in 2005 are scheduled to be sold to a third party immediately upon delivery from the manufacturer, which Delta had previously announced.

Delta, which is transforming its business to reduce costs and attract more fliers, has blamed high fuel prices and low fares as major factors contributing to its mounting losses.

Delta nearly fell into bankruptcy late last year before winning deep concessions from pilots and fresh financing from creditors."
 

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