barrel roll in a piper

[Stukadriver]

If you ever get the itch to do acro in something that isn't certified for it, just watch the video of the 1983 Partenavia crash in Plainview, TX. The version I saw showed the guy telling a reporter who was riding with him the day before the airshow something to the effect of how normal category aircraft are perfectly capable of doing aerobatic manuvers. The next day, he ripped the wings off outboard of the engines and twisted the empennage while trying to perform a loop.

http://www.airdisaster.com/forums/printthread.php?t=69798

 

[Lead Sled]

If you ever get the itch to do acro in something that isn't certified for it, just watch the video of the 1983 Partenavia crash in Plainview, TX.

I knew that guy pretty well - we was my Turbo Commander instructor. I strongly believe every pilot ought to have a certain minimum level of aerobatic proficiency - namely spins and rolls. One company that I worked for in the past, sent us for periodic aerobatic training to help us in the event that we were to ever have an encounter with extreme upset caused by, for example, a bad wake turbulence encounter. (This was the suspected cause of a couple of fatal corporate accidents a few years ago.) This training is becoming increasingly popular with corporate operators. Also, according to the guy who provided our training, some 121 operators are starting to get on the bandwagon as well. (Many schools call it "Extreme Unusual Attitude Recovery Training". Don't want no "hotshot" corporate or airline pilots out there. It is what it is however.)

The aircraft that many of these schools use are what you'd expect - Decathelons and Pitts. However, courses are also taught in T-34s and the various surplus eastern European jet trainers that are out there. (You don't see many Piper Cherokees Tony, so don't get any ideas.)

It is nice to have “automatic” reactions should you ever tangle with the wake turbulence of a “heavy”. At a certain point, a pilots normal reaction of pulling pack on the yoke to avoid the ground will be exactly what you don't want to do.

'Sled

 

[AA717driver]

Man, this stuff scares the he!! outta me!

I'm going to stick with seeing how much freezing rain my 172 can carry. Hey, I've got 10,000 hours. What could possibly go wrong...? TC

 

[say again]

Man, this stuff scares the he!! outta me!

I'm going to stick with seeing how much freezing rain my 172 can carry. Hey, I've got 10,000 hours. What could possibly go wrong...? TC

The famous last words speak again.

Do you guys remember the 707( or DC-8) doing a barrel role? Now that was f-ing awesome!!! If done properly, it's an elegant manuever. The thing is, most people don't do it properly with grave circumstances.

If you're going to do it, go up with an experienced aerobatic pilot in a CERTIFIED aircraft. Have fun and enjoy.

 

[mizzouguy]

I knew someone who did that and the wings came off killing him and his 2 friends and almost hitting a boat. The video is pretty impressive.

 

[TurboS7]

Aztec rolls great.

 

[Inconceivable]

My wife did her instrument rating at a school in TUS a few years back in a new 172. On her long IFR XC the instructor (the assistant chief) asked if she wanted to roll the plane--somewhere between TUS and Silver City. She said no, thanks to years of flying with my paranoid a$$. He persisted, she said she'd land on the nearest road and hitch home if she had to.

Otherwise he was an excellent IFR instructor. Makes you wonder about some of the people we share airspace with....

 

[Axel]

Some stupid person posts this same stupid question every few months and gets the same answers every time.

1) You can do it safely. Here's how:...
2) It can be done safely, but not by you.
3) Linky to crashes: Partenavia/Falcon 10/Be-99, etc.
4) The guy who told you how is wrong. Here's how:...
5) Rent a Pitts
6) Don't bend the plane I'm gonna fly.
7) Stop asking stupid questions. (this is the correct answer)

That should sum it up for this time. See you all next go-round. Same Bat-time, same Bat-station.

 

[414Flyer]

One of my friends was pretty good in aerobatics, used to do 4 point hesitation rolls in a turbo arrow, and could do a clover leaf in a tomahawk, of course he would end up at a lot lower altitude than what he started at.

He later got a real aerobatic aircraft, still flying as far as I know.

 

[Traveller Pilot]

Stuka Driver....Wes Winter, the chap in Plainview, had been performing at airshows around the country for quite some time in the Partenavia, the manuever he was performing was in excess of vne, and everything else..not your normal run-of the-mill 1-g maneuver he had done in the past..(rumours it was suicide due to financial and other problems at his business in PHX abounded at the time)..Bob Hoover also demonstrated 1-g maneuvers in his Shrike for many many years...any certificted airplane is capable of performing simple aerobatics provided the maneuver is performed properly..trouble is, most are not CERTIFICATED to do so...but are in fact structurally capable..loops, rolls, snap rolls, are easily done in most light aircraft...but inadviseable..due to legalities...and of course the repercussions of cocking it up, and bending the airplane...if you make a mess out of it in a certificated aircraft, you crash legally..(wonder if your next of kin still has to return your licnce to the FAA in this case since it was legal)

 

[WizardPilot]

and one of the most used last words of many who have been spoken of on this thread......

Drum rolllllllllllllllllllllllll


"Hey ya'll, watch this...."

 

[VNugget]

you can roll any airplane and IF yo do it properly it's a 1-G manuever.

not your normal run-of the-mill 1-g maneuver he had done in the past..
...
Bob Hoover also demonstrated 1-g maneuvers in his Shrike for many many years...

I am sorry I have to butt in with my pedantic bitching, but I see this so often I can't stand it anymore.

Anything other than straight flight is NOT 1 G. You may mean to say "positive and not-too-high G" not 1 G!

edit: I should clarify that includes the return to straight-and-level flight after the maneuver. Yes I know you can go inverted and go into a 1G dive into the ground.

 

[The_Russian]

I am sorry I have to butt in with my pedantic bitching, but I see this so often I can't stand it anymore.

Anything other than straight flight is NOT 1 G. You may mean to say "positive and not-too-high G" not 1 G!

edit: I should clarify that includes the return to straight-and-level flight after the maneuver. Yes I know you can go inverted and go into a 1G dive into the ground.

I am sorry but you are slightly wrong here. The measurement of gravity with respect to movement in a fluid is not relative to the horizon at all times. It can be made, in a manuever, relative to the aircraft. Thus, a 1G barrel roll can be made without overstressing the aircraft. However, during the transition from staight and level, there will be a change in the forces of flight. This will result in a higher load on the aircraft. After the initial transition is made, the aircraft can be trimmed or controled to exactly one G. All normal and transport category aircraft can be rolled as long as you do not exceed the limits. I find it funny that pilots will run engines at max RPM and torque for hours straight, but they refuse to take their airplane to its load limits. As far as the FAA is concerned there is generally a 30% buffer on all limitations to protect the "foolish" or "not so skilled" pilot.

ANY aircraft can be rolled with ease. The pilot must understand the concept of the maneuver.

 

[VNugget]

I know that G (or, more properly, acceleration) is with respect to the plane's flight path, and not the horizon, or anything else (even though they often coincide).

Yes, the inverted part of the barrel roll can be flown at 1 G, but you can take almost any maneuver and look at just a segment of it and say things about it that don't apply to the whole maneuver. But then we're just playing with semantics and not talking about anything meaningful. How do you pull up into the barrell roll or pull out of it without exceeding 1G? Even you just said you can't. So I'm not sure what the argument is.